Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
I don't know that much about the US healthcare system other than it's user pays, which means you need insurance. I wouldn't travel there without it.
New Zealand has (despite a few noisy complainers) one of the best systems I've heard of. There's two parts to it: The public health system, which is fully funded, but with long waiting lists for non-urgent stuff. The waiting list is the biggest source of complaint, but once you're in the hospital the care is excellent. If you're seriously injured, you're in straight away looked after.
The other part is called ACC (formerly the Accident Compensation Corporation, now officially called something else, but still called ACC because the acronym is too big, but that's another story...). ACC works because we have a no-fault, no blame system. ACC cover you for hospital treatment and 80% income if you are unable to work because of your injuries (work, home, sporting, anywhere). ACC is funded through levies collected through taxes (income tax, road user tax which is built into the price of petrol and additional levies depending on the risk-profile of your occupation).
No fault, no blame works like this: You can't sue anyone. Someone knocks you off your board, you can't sue them, but ACC pays for you healthcare etc. Lawyers in New Zealand don't chase ambulances or hustle insurance companies.
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgoon
Did you say uninsured bum?...................................I can't even begin to get in to how insulted I am by that comment, and I'm from Canada. There's a lot of hardworking bluecollar workers all over the f'n word for whom insurance isn't an option....but I guess if your a Doctor, or an Archtect, or a Lawyer you deserve it right?.....There's a finger between my ring finger and my index for that type of attitude.
I sure did, and it was in reference to myself. If you're insulted by that, I appreciate how sensitive and tender your feelings are, but fear that you may have many more upsets facing you as you move forward. Nobody gets insurance for free in the USA. This may be tough for you to understand but, if your employer pays for your insurance, it reduces your salary to compensate for that. If you're a rich doctor that hardly works at all but chooses to have insurance, you have to pay for it. If your government pays for your health insurance...they reduce your income to compensate for that, by taxing you. When I chose not to pay for health insurance, because I didn't have the money to do so, that simply meant that I chose to pay retail for medical services. Take that special finger, and stick it right next to where your head is nestled.
__________________ Relax, Don't Worry, Ride Your Longboard.
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EBasil
I sure did, and it was in reference to myself. If you're insulted by that, I appreciate how sensitive and tender your feelings are, but fear that you may have many more upsets facing you as you move forward. Nobody gets insurance for free in the USA. This may be tough for you to understand but, if your employer pays for your insurance, it reduces your salary to compensate for that. If you're a rich doctor that hardly works at all but chooses to have insurance, you have to pay for it. If your government pays for your health insurance...they reduce your income to compensate for that, by taxing you. When I chose not to pay for health insurance, because I didn't have the money to do so, that simply meant that I chose to pay retail for medical services. Take that special finger, and stick it right next to where your head is nestled.
Sorry, but when you said "uninsured bums like I was" you were clearly implying that anyone who's uninsured is a bum. That is offensive.
As far as understanding goes I understand that your reply is typical of pomp coming from what I can only suspect to be a lawyer, or a young republican. I know how Health insurance works (or doesn't) in the States. My family emigrated from Ireland to New York, and then moved to Toronto the 30s, and I still have family there. Regardless, I come here to talk skating not politics, but if there's one thing this thread has taught me it's that you're about as punk rock as Pat Boone.
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Well, I see where he is coming from, D0, but yeah, I think it was just a misread. I read your post and saw you were mostly referring to yourself as a bum, not implying that all people without insurance are bums. I know a lot of people, some harder working than myself, who are without insurance. In one case, the guy has Chrones disease, and is considered 'uninsurable'. He can't get insurance between jobs, because the premiums are absurd (over 1000$ a month, things like that). Another friend's dad died of lukemia at 50, and has a family history of it. He can't get insurance either. He went 6 years without seeing a doctor, a dentist, or anything, because he couldn't afford it, despite working hard as a musician and a baker (two jobs that don't offer benefits). He needs to see the doctor to get checkups for cancer and things, so if he gets it, it could be caught early. But the very thing preventing him from getting insurance is the thing that he needs the insurance for. He's no bum, however, he's very dedicated and hard working, just got a bad stamp because of his family history.
The one thing about D0's post that I take some issue with is the idea that in public healthcare systems the government pays your insurance by lowering your salary in the form of taxes, the same way that in the US system, your employer pays your insurance by lowering your salary. In a "person, insurance company, healthcare provider" system, a freakish quantity of money is spent maintaining the infrastructure. The insurance agents need salaries, the medical coding specialists need salaries, the CEOs need BIG salaries, etc. Insurance companies operate like gigantic middle-men, causing hassle to both sides, and siphoning a huge quantity of money. Doctor's offices spend a lot of money and time dealing with insurance companies. They'd still need to spend money and time dealing with the government, but at least then there would be a standardized system to work in, instead of hassling with 24 different insurance plans, changing medicare coverage, this policy, that policy, this copay, that copay, etc.
Public healthcare systems still have infrastructure costs, but because they aren't profit driven, they are much less than private healthcare infrastructure costs. In a public healthcare system, people would pay less, on average, than they do now. It would seem like healthcare costs went up at first, when the program began, but that would just be because 46 million more people were covered. The per-person cost would be much less in the end.
peace,
sam
__________________
"Certainly, this is not a sport for the sane, but a sport for the young and the reckless."
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgoon
Sorry, but when you said "uninsured bums like I was" you were clearly implying that anyone who's uninsured is a bum. That is offensive.
As far as understanding goes I understand that your reply is typical of pomp coming from what I can only suspect to be a lawyer, or a young republican. I know how Health insurance works (or doesn't) in the States. My family emigrated from Ireland to New York, and then moved to Toronto the 30s, and I still have family there. Regardless, I come here to talk skating not politics, but if there's one thing this thread has taught me it's that you're about as punk rock as Pat Boone.Peace
Hilarious, but sadly your reading comprehension and ability to restrain yourself from projecting your own angst have failed you again. Many things upset you, don't they? The raw injustice of it all, and in the context that it's "the man puttin us down". If you think all uninsured people are bums, I feel sad for your ignorance.
I'll discuss your Charlotte Church brand of punk credibility with the other kids in my Young Republicans cell, but they'll probably just wonder why you're griping instead of fixing. In the meantime, enjoy your cushy job, your state-funded health insurance and the luxury of complaining about the plight of others you do nothing to remedy. Burn something! Charlotte would.
Phideaux hit a central issue: bloat. One side effect of profit-driven suceess in American medical work has been a huge system of financial bloat. Overcoming that politicial juggernaut may just turn out to be something we can't solve on a skateboard forum, at least not in time to help out the unfortunate dude on Concrete Disciples.
__________________ Relax, Don't Worry, Ride Your Longboard.
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EBasil
Hilarious, but sadly your reading comprehension and ability to restrain yourself from projecting your own angst have failed you again. Many things upset you, don't they? The raw injustice of it all, and in the context that it's "the man puttin us down". If you think all uninsured people are bums, I feel sad for your ignorance.
I'll discuss your Charlotte Church brand of punk credibility with the other kids in my Young Republicans cell, but they'll probably just wonder why you're griping instead of fixing. In the meantime, enjoy your cushy job, your state-funded health insurance and the luxury of complaining about the plight of others you do nothing to remedy. Burn something! Charlotte would.
Phideaux hit a central issue: bloat. One side effect of profit-driven suceess in American medical work has been a huge system of financial bloat. Overcoming that politicial juggernaut may just turn out to be something we can't solve on a skateboard forum, at least not in time to help out the unfortunate dude on Concrete Disciples.
Phideaux, you really did sum up how I feel about the debate.
Okey Dokey, this is it for me. Sorry Folks.
-Reading comprehension? It was you who wrote "uninsured bums" not me. Had the letter "s" not been included in that term I would have let it go, but the inclusion of that seemingly unimportant consonant set me off. There is no misunderstanding. Maybe you didn't mean to imply that everyone without insurance was a bum, but you did. At no time did I imply that I shared this view with you Eb.
-Although raised in a Protestant home I rarely restrain myself when faced with such a right wing attitude. My approach changes from one situation to another, but hey, we're online...
-The Man?....I think my old Uncle P used that term once.
-Few things get to me, but Lawyers and Republicans are some of the most morally devoid people I know. Regardless, I still have to attend Family dinners. I hug them before they leave, and I pray for them at night.
-Injustice is sad and irritating, but I am human and it's natural for me to empathize...You ARE a lawyer aren't you?
-Who's Charlotte?
-You have no idea what I do, or how I act on what I believe, but I stopped attending protests at the age of 21. For someone of your profession you've done a miserable job of reading me. I prefer one on one confrontations, and working out solutions rather than complaining about what's obviously not working.
-Cushy job?...now that's funny
-Politics are relevant everywhere. They are not above anyone.
I apologize to anyone who intended to have a meaningful debate here. I piped up when I read a word(s) that I strongly disagreed with. I must admit online arguments always make me feel childish. We have both gotten way off topic. I've made my stabs. He's made His. We were both probably entertained by the whole thing, maybe even mildly annoyed. If one thing is clear it's our respective views on the topic, and our political leanings.
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
To add humor to this sorry debate, and i mean it's a sorry state that people needing health care can't afford any, but end up in the ER out of necesity and in huge debt afterwards (charging $150 per breath taken in the ER at my guess) - living large in america.
BUT my story is..........Mitchell, my husband, WAS uninsured when we met, not even remotely a bum. I noticed these huge brown marks all over his upper body and i thought it was multiple birth marks. he told me the week before during a tow-in down a small hill, he got his skate caught under the car's wheel, ate crap and ripped the flesh off his body. YUK - beef jerky - and no medical treatment, even for the concusion 'cuz he couldn't afford the ER.
Our dating entailed MANY skated/surfed etc sessions - 50 mph bombs, weekly rallies at the Ollie house 'till 10pm, YMCA bowls and i was ALWAYS worried about him getting hurt - his wanting to charge with me so much - my worrying about his not being able to take care of himself medically if needed. being a professional lucky enough to have health insurance and madly in love, I asked him to marry me SO HE COULD BE COVERED under my plan. 6 years later, i've found it was one of my best decisions made as an adult!
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by phidauex
Well, I see where he is coming from, D0
where...I'M coming from? How am I involved in this argument??? I think you're confuzed and reading the wrong names. I'm the dude not calling people names or getting excited about stuff here. I know its a real change of speed for me but I assure you it wasnt me, I don't take my or other peoples internet opinions seriously anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by isabelle
being a professional lucky enough to have health insurance and madly in love, I asked him to marry me SO HE COULD BE COVERED under my plan. 6 years later, i've found it was one of my best decisions made as an adult!
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Quote:
-Reading comprehension? It was you who wrote "uninsured bums" not me. Had the letter "s" not been included in that term I would have let it go, but the inclusion of that seemingly unimportant consonant set me off. There is no misunderstanding. Maybe you didn't mean to imply that everyone without insurance was a bum, but you did.
i think your wrong here.
"uninsured bums like i was" refers to other people who were "bums" in the same maner in which she was a "bum"
it does not have anything to do with any possible steriotypical "bum" notion that includes everyone without insurance......
i have to go now, but i have more to say about this, i'll be back.......
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgoon
-Reading comprehension? It was you who wrote "uninsured bums" not me. Had the letter "s" not been included in that term I would have let it go, but the inclusion of that seemingly unimportant consonant set me off. There is no misunderstanding. Maybe you didn't mean to imply that everyone without insurance was a bum, but you did. At no time did I imply that I shared this view with you Eb.
-Few things get to me, but Lawyers and Republicans are some of the most morally devoid people I know. Regardless, I still have to attend Family dinners. I hug them before they leave, and I pray for them at night.
-Injustice is sad and irritating, but I am human and it's natural for me to empathize...You ARE a lawyer aren't you?
I find it hilariously ironic that you become involved in this issue because he passively generalizes uninsured as "bums" and yet you continue to stereotype lawyers and republicans as morally devoid. The hypocrisy is overwhelming.
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Directive0
where...I'M coming from? How am I involved in this argument??? I think you're confuzed and reading the wrong names. I'm the dude not calling people names or getting excited about stuff here. I know its a real change of speed for me but I assure you it wasnt me, I don't take my or other peoples internet opinions seriously anymore.
Oops!! My bad! I meant Ebasil! But don't go taking things too seriously now. I guess you can tell how seriously I take opinions on the internet too, I can't even remember who said what. All you high-post-count kids all sound the same to me.
peace,
sam
__________________
"Certainly, this is not a sport for the sane, but a sport for the young and the reckless."
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Two things:
One, remember that costs vary wildy depending on where you live and how old you are. It's easy for a single guy in his twenties in, say, Montana, to afford some kind of health insurance since it's only $100 or something. But like I said, the lowest cost decent HMO plan available in the San Francisco area is $1200 a month for a family! That represents roughly 25% of my after-tax salary. My employer pays for it now (thank you local tax payers - I work for the government!) but no way could I afford this policy myself when I was self-employed and we went five years without any insurance. Very lucky none of us needed any care at all in that time frame. The best option for skaters who are in good health but just worried about costs of broken bones or whatnot is to get a catastrophic insurance policy: the premiums are much, much cheaper but you'll pay out of pocket for the first $3k or $5k or whatever before the insurance kicks in. Just the thing to have when you break a wrist or need a knee operation.
Two, my dreams have been crushed since we learned in this thread that Isabelle is married!
__________________
Pacifica, CA
"the pen is weak. skateboarding is as deadly as all hell" - gonz
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
Re: Private vs. Public Healthcare vs skateboarding...
I guess you can tell how seriously I take opinions on the internet too, I can't even remember who said what. All you high-post-count kids all sound the same to me. 
Linear Mode
