"Why We Must Begin Marketing A Lifestyle"

[msk]

That's the title of a recent editorial I read, and here's one of the key paragraphs from it:

"While some companies still run full-page product ads, trying to convince us that their product is superior, in the end its about their team and the image those riders portray. The companies that understand this have the sales to prove it. Once we start realizing that we need to sell an image instead of a product, we can create a whole new line of profitable goods. Kids want to be Edwin DeLaRosa and Mikey Aitken; this is why they dress like them and mimic the way they ride, which in turn makes them want to use the same products these riders do."

Any of this sound familiar? This was in the latest issue of BMX Business News. Not only does this sound a lot like the mainstream skateboard market, the writer goes on to explain how skateboarding does all this much better than BMX, and BMX needs to take a page from skating's playbook:

"Skate shops can't stay alive by just selling skateboards, yet we continue to fuel their industry by buying shoes, clothes, backpacks, etc. Why is this? And why do skateshops have the market on these products? Is it simply because they have embraced their culture?"

I've worked in the bike industry for most of my adult life, and one thing I've noticed is that BMX doesn't market itself the way road and mountain biking does. BMX has generally been similar, if a few steps behind, skating. But the skating/BMX style of marketing doesn't work on other aspects of cycling. Most road/MTB ads don't mention who rides for them, unless someone on the team has just won a major race. The focus is generally on the technical aspects of the product, and/or cycling as a lifestyle activity. A Tour de France victory may have a slight impact on sales, but most bikes are sold based on features and quality. The average bike shop has a few racks of clothing, but almost all of it is for actually riding: jerseys, shorts, cleated shoes, gloves, etc. Very little of it is for wearing after the ride or race. Despite cycling's popularity, you rarely see people walking around in Shimano or Pinarello t-shirts. And despite this style of marketing, cycling has remained a steady market over the years.

BMX, on the other hand, generally has ads similar to a lot skate ads. I can't tell you anything about what many companies' frames are like, but I know who's on the team. The company I work for actually uses two advertising agencies: one for the mainstream bikes, and one for BMX. Because an ad showing one of our riders in a hot tub with 3 bikinied models and handfuls of cash sells bikes to kids better than explaining the advantages of a full cro-mo frame does. And now we're being told that we need to sell the team even more over the bikes. As another line from the editorial points out:

"Products have come full circle; frames are more like skateboard decks- virtually the same, except for different graphics."

The BMX market has always been in flux, much like skating used to be. And here they're calling for imitating skating even more for marketing. Maybe the way to look is the other way, to mainstream cycling: Sell the product, and the lifestyle that goes with it, not the pro and his image.

Maybe that's where skating needs to look, as well. I don't skate because Bam, or Tony Hawk, or even Tony Alva skates. I skate because I enjoy it, not because some company put out a new DVD. If all the pros disappear, people can still skate, as long as trucks, wheels and decks are still available. And just like I do with bikes, I look for gear that's going to do what I want or need it to do. I don't buy something because ******* uses it. I think blank sales are a small step in that direction. Kids are buying *boards*, not image. Maybe we'll get back to the days when companies like Powell and Kryptonics pushed the technical advances of their products, and not their team rosters.

The industry needs to market a lifestyle, all right, but not the one they've been pushing. Sell us on the fact that skating is fun, its creative, its good exercise, etc. Sell us on the fact that you can do just about anything on a board, and that there's a board for just about anything. The lifestyle they need to sell is *what you do*, not *how you dress doing it*...

[skategeezer]

wow,
this is one of the most intelligent posts I've read on the marketing of "action sports"
THANK YOU!

the same old formulas DO NOT work anymore....

[stanthenewguy]

Thanks,

I'm glad to see that someone else actually gets it. I could give a crap who is on what team, I care about the product the company makes.

STANTHENEWGUY


I we had a rep system I would total give you some!

[Slim]

The "same old formulas" seem to be working just fine to me. I can't open my eyes without seeing something skate company related, be it a shirt, shoes, hats, or actual skateboards.

Don't forget that the majority of skateboards are purchased by/for kids. Clearly the marketing message is going to be different than the one designed to attract adults (so the comparrsion to road bike marketing is irrelevant). Old timers may be sold on technical specs, sure. That's because they are lazy. Let me explain. Technical differences in this wheel or that or this deck or that, are going to account for, what, 10% difference in performance? The other 90% is the rider. Well, kids (and those of us who have never grown up) are more interested in dedicating themselves to that 90% realm, using their time and concentration and commitment to get better at skating. Old, lazy guys don't have that dedication. They can't be bothered. So they're more interested in their equipment, looking to pick up a little speed or a little control from something they can buy instead of something they have to earn by actually skating and putting it on the line. Totally different approaches to skating, that are going to result in different marketing.

Kids just want to skate and are more inspired by an action photo than a bunch of words about technical specs. And the owners of skateboard companies are for the most part hardcore skaters themselves, who are going to be more proud of pulling off a new trick than a subtle tweak in urethane formula. They want to have hot photos in their ads because it's what inspires themselves. They are fine leaving the technical mumbo-jumbo to outsiders like Mr. Bennett.

Aspirational marketing is always going to be the best bet in attracting younger customers, and older ones still motivated by getting better. You don't show them skaters just like them. You don't show pictures of moves they can already do. You show them something more developed (e.g. kids want to be older) and more difficult that they can aspire to, and they'll buy into it. You can tell them they'll skate better if they buy this wheel because it's got fancy technology, and they'll respond that they're going to skate better because they are dedicated to skating and equipment just doesn't bother them that much. It's not what's holding them back or allowing them to progress. Because they are operating in that main 90% realm where it's the Indian, not the arrow. When they've maxed out that 90% or give up on giving it more effort, then they'll be like old dudes trying to buy more performance.

I find it puzzling that you guys spend so much time talking about and criticizing the street/park skateboard scene and its products and media. Face it, you're not part of that world. They aren't talking to you. You're not supposed to 'get it'. You're not going to have an accurate view of it. When you say all decks and wheels are the same except graphics, you're like white guys saying all Asians look the same. You're on the outside looking in.

And here you are wishing skateboarding was marketed as "fun" and "good exercise". Give me a break! Exercise is for old farts who sit on their asses all day. Tell 'em to join a gym. Skateboarding is serious business.

(p.s. MSK, your remark about Powell is puzzling because i can't think of any company in the history of skating that marketed its products more by team roster and videos, two things you seem to be against.)

[Slim]

Originally Posted by msk

I skate because I enjoy it, not because some company put out a new DVD. If all the pros disappear, people can still skate, as long as trucks, wheels and decks are still available.

That's the thing. Skateboards don't cost any more than they did 25 years ago. The industry has grown and decided to profit on sales volume, and keep prices low, and need the marketing machine they have in order to maintain that.

You old farts may be fine since you spend more time working than skating and can afford to spend $250 on a set of trucks. But if the skateboard soft goods market dried up today, and the poseurs stopped buying skateboards to carry around after they saw a dvd, then regular street skating trucks like Indys would have to sell for $100 and decks would be $80.

So... lifestyle marketing is what has kept prices low and manufacturing here in the usa. One thing to remember though is that at least this marketing is genuine. It's coming from actual participants in the sports. The skateboard industry is owned and operated by skaters and former skaters. It's not a marketing creation. It's real skateboards who own all these companies and they are just being themseleves. That the rest of the country wants to be like that, is kind of a happy accident. It's not calculated.

Regardles, if it dies, then either all products will be made in china, or prices will have to rise dramatically.

[gorillabiscuits]

Originally Posted by Slim

Skateboarding is serious business.

This is sig worthy.

[Stop The Madness]

Great pair of posts Slim.

[msk]

Don't forget that the majority of skateboards are purchased by/for kids. Clearly the marketing message is going to be different than the one designed to attract adults (so the comparrsion to road bike marketing is irrelevant).

The biggest, fastest explosion in skateboarding's popularity happened without the aid of videos, magazines, or pros. It happened because of an equipment advance (urethane wheels). Those who weren't around for it can't really grasp how amazing the impact was. And it kept going, with trucks actually designed for skating, better wheels, maple ply decks, etc. The skateboard advertising I grew up with was similar to the way road bikes are marketed, and it was still targeted towards kids. Pro models were few and far between (and even then, only cost about $2-$3 more than the other boards). Companies offered wide ranges of shapes, sizes, and construction (much like the current bike market), and didn't depend on who's name was on the bottom.

And despite the lack of videos, pro model shoes, clothing lines, constant TV coverage, and with fewer magazines, skating somehow got just as big as it is today.

Old timers may be sold on technical specs, sure. That's because they are lazy.

So does that mean all the pros back in the 70s were lazy? They all kept jumping on new products. At various times, you'd see virtually everyone riding Tunnel Rocks, then Powerflex 5s, then green Kryptonics, etc. It wasn't because of a team roster in the ads, it was because those wheels outperformed everything else available at the time...

MSK, your remark about Powell is puzzling because i can't think of any company in the history of skating that marketed its products more by team roster and videos, two things you seem to be against.

The key phrase here is "get back to the days when companies like Powell and Kryptonics pushed the technical advances of their products, and not their team rosters". How many years was Powell around before they started marketing that way? They started in '76, and didn't even release their first pro model until mid '79. Until then, their advertising focused on how their boards were different. Especially in the early days, Powell was a prime mover in skateboard innovation. The boards and wheels sold themselves, not who was riding them. Even with the first Ray "Bones" model, the advertising focused on what was unique about the design, and not so much that it was Ray's model...

But if the skateboard soft goods market dried up today, and the poseurs stopped buying skateboards to carry around after they saw a dvd, then regular street skating trucks like Indys would have to sell for $100 and decks would be $80.

History has already shown that isn't the case. Prices would have to dramatically skyrocket only if all the companies and shops were to stay in business. But what has always happened is that the number of manufacturers and retailers shrink, and prices remain the same. As I recall, in the crash of the early 80s, Indy started producing *cheaper* setups to stay afloat...

[gorillabiscuits]

Things were so progressive back then because skateboarding was still in it's early youth. Now that skateboarding found out what works, the progression has slowed down a bit. There is still progression like different thane formulas, small improvement on trucks, better deck construction. I mean, what else is there to improve on street skating? Everything else is pretty good as I can see. It has hard to come up with improvements. You cant expect things to be like they were, especially in street skating.

Now longskate, thats a different story...

[Slim]

Originally Posted by msk

The biggest, fastest explosion in skateboarding's popularity happened without the aid of videos, magazines, or pros. It happened because of an equipment advance (urethane wheels). Those who weren't around for it can't really grasp how amazing the impact was. And it kept going, with trucks actually designed for skating, better wheels, maple ply decks, etc. The skateboard advertising I grew up with was similar to the way road bikes are marketed, and it was still targeted towards kids.

And nearly all of it was by non-skater owned, outside companies. Rollerskate companies, bike companies, whatever. But you can't deny that there was a major shift when guys like Alva broke out with ads that didn't talk about skateboards at all. They communicated at a much more direct level. A feeling. Skaters reallized that feeling was what attracted them to skateboarding, not engineering. This dovetailed perfectly into the modern skateboard industry era, the one run by skater-owned/operated companies that began in the early 80s. Skaters represented their own lifestyle in ads: that it was deemed attractive by others and led to big softgood sales wasn't really intentional. It's just a reflection of how 'cool' skateboarding is at its core.

So does that mean all the pros back in the 70s were lazy? They all kept jumping on new products. At various times, you'd see virtually everyone riding Tunnel Rocks, then Powerflex 5s, then green Kryptonics, etc. It wasn't because of a team roster in the ads, it was because those wheels outperformed everything else available at the time...

I'd just say that skateboards were changing a lot back then our of necessity, still searching for what works best. A lot of outsiders were producing things that didn't really work that well. At that stage of development, products can be marketed on the increase in performance. A urethane wheel worked five times as good as clay, a second generation urethane was twice as good as the earliest offerings, etc.. Precision bearings were way better than open bearings. And so on. But by the early 80s, skateboard technology matured. It got as good as it really needed to be. While one couldn't do the tricks of the 80s on the boards for the 60s, they can indeed do the tricks of today on the boards of the mid-80s. All the industry needed to do was get to that certain point.

After that, it is only natural that style takes over and what you do and how it looks becomes more important than the board its done on.

But what has always happened is that the number of manufacturers and retailers shrink, and prices remain the same. As I recall, in the crash of the early 80s, Indy started producing *cheaper* setups to stay afloat...

Yes, NHS grabbed some unsold stock from other companies and repainted them as the Jammer and sold them with 131s and roadriders or ojs or something. But that was then, and this is now: I suspect nowdays in this more "globalized" marketplace, what would happen is that all usa manufacturers would simply have to close up and all we'd have is crap from China imported by non-skater owned sporting goods companies.

One other possible outcome, and the one I'd prefer, is that the current "middleman" based skate industry would disappear. There wouldn't be enough profit involved to have a guy in his office ordering products from a manufacturer and then sellling them to a distributor who then sells them again to a retailer who then finally sells it to the customer as the forth time the product has been sold! Companies can make their own boards and sell them direct and still survive. Whether they do this with pro-teams or just as blanks or whatever doesn't matter to me. I just hope that the industry remains controlled by people who actually skate.

[fluidfruit]

Originally Posted by Slim

Let me explain. Technical differences in this wheel or that or this deck or that, are going to account for, what, 10% difference in performance? The other 90% is the rider. Well, kids (and those of us who have never grown up) are more interested in dedicating themselves to that 90% realm, using their time and concentration and commitment to get better at skating. Old, lazy guys don't have that dedication. They can't be bothered. So they're more interested in their equipment, looking to pick up a little speed or a little control from something they can buy instead of something they have to earn by actually skating and putting it on the line.

One of the best reads on the fish ever!

If your avatar makes sense, it's because of this one...

You made it perfectly clear, thanks.

[msk]

And nearly all of it was by non-skater owned, outside companies.

Like Sims, Logan Earth Ski, Tracker, UFO, Tunnel, and G&S?

The other 90% is the rider. Well, kids (and those of us who have never grown up) are more interested in dedicating themselves to that 90% realm, using their time and concentration and commitment to get better at skating. Old, lazy guys don't have that dedication. They can't be bothered. So they're more interested in their equipment, looking to pick up a little speed or a little control from something they can buy instead of something they have to earn by actually skating and putting it on the line. Totally different approaches to skating, that are going to result in different marketing.

I'd have to disagree. Except for the kids that have to use hand-me-downs, or can only afford the cheapest setup available, just about everyone believes that they are riding the best. And most of them believe that because, well, ****** rides it, so it must be the best (even when ****** doesn't really ride it, they just advertise it as such). Nobody goes into a skateshop and says "give me the crappiest deck you've got, I'll just practice harder". Look at the street-centric forums: thread upon thread upon thread of "Are Elements better than Zeros? Are Indys better than Ventures?"

"Old, lazy guys don't have that dedication. They can't be bothered." You have empirical data to back that one up? Personally, out of all the old guys I skate with, I don't know anyone who isn't trying harder, and is instead just trying to buy improvement. Why not use what works best, as well as push yourself? Get the full 100% of possible improvement, instead of just settling for 90%...

A lot of outsiders were producing things that didn't really work that well.

But at the same time, a lot of outsiders were producing some of the best and most innovative stuff. Under today's conditions, George Powell wouldn't stand a chance getting started. We're told we have to buy from current/former pro skaters, not laid off aerospace engineers. Torsion trucks? Developed by Mattel. Vans shoes? Better than what Hobie and Makaha were putting out.

Maybe what we need is another George Powell. People tend to think inside their own little box, and sometimes an outside perspective is needed. Going back to the bike industry for a minute, which had been stagnant for several decades. When the SoCal aerospace industry took a nose dive, a lot of engineers were out of work. A few took a look at bike component design, and saw there was a lot of room for improvement. What followed was a period of drastic improvement, because there were people that weren't constrained by conventional wisdom. But by proclaiming "skater-owned", the industry has effectively locked that door, and outsiders aren't allowed.

[wefunk]

We're told we have to buy from current/former pro skaters, not laid off aerospace engineers.

i agree 100%.

having a team and showing that your stuff actually works (in racing / competition conditions) is immensely important.
just marketing your product and explaining the benefits just doesn´t work.
it´s a really extremely minor percentage of possible customers mostly with an engineering background who judge a product by itself. like: "wow, with this specs, this HAS to be a good racing deck."

when i get sceptic to outright negative comments it´s mostly:
"well, most pro-riders are superfast with heavy plywood decks so why bother with a composite deck 4 times as expensive."

that my production cost is multiple times that of a plywood deck (material and mostly worktime) is of no interest to the customer and doesn´t has to be.
if the customer understands that he really gets a different value for his money things start to change.

without the comments of satisfied customers here on SF i would be long out of business. (thanks SF!)

to compete (in biz) with cheaper wood decks only works when you can PROVE your product is superior. for that i need to have a team and market it.


best example for a an evoulution in equipment is skiing and snowboarding.
snowboarding went through the same technical evolution like skiing when it actually could have lept straight to composites.

would any ordinary customer today doubt that he would benefit from modern composite materials compared to a massive hickory ski or an edgeless plywood snowboard?
are they willing to pay the money charged for engineered sporting equipement?

would an modern composite skateboard with US$ 300 cnc´ed trucks outrace a 70´s board on a straight course like signal hill?
probably not.

would a hobby or pro racer benefit from highly calibrated equipement on a technical european mountain road with changing surface qualities and tight hairpins?
i firmly believe so.

does the differece to a plywood deck with stock randal trucks justify the higher price?
not for a kid with just his pocket money to spend.

as long as people are only willing to pay a toy´s price they have to understand that they´ll only get that value.
agreed -- a US$ 300 complete isn´t a toy and you can race on it.
but thse prices are still ridiculously low compared to other gliding or racing sports.

does it make a difference to ride a EURO 800-900 complete?
ask my teamriders who prefer paying me my material costs (and a little beer money) to getting wood decks for free from other companies.

it´s hard to market a lifestyle in downhill or slalom racing. it´s easier to do this with simple complete cruising setups which don´t need to be tech.
i think best example here is GFH who do an excellent job: out of nowhere in 2005 to the pages literally everywhere in 2006.
AFAIK their team consists of SURFERS not even skaters.
that is pure lifestyle marketing at it´s best and it seems to work for them.

this kind of marketing simply doesn´t work for me.
or i would decide to go for an additional cheap mass produced model which i could (only) lifestyle-market. this one cheap model would multiple my earnings.
BUT this one cheap model would mess up my image as a true manufacturer (in it´s literal meaning: building by hand).

so i have to keep in my niche try to market my product and a small team and skip on lifestyle marketing.

[rawls]

Plain and simple, the product has stayed at a level for so long that the market has to employ another outlet to maintain sells. that outlet is in softgoods and lifestyle, so you can look like your favorite skater, or the generic magazine personality, as an identification as a skater. the mainstream market is no longer about skating.

People are going to argue that skaters dont see it this way. thats fine! but the mainstream vendors do.

[cfav]

Originally Posted by wefunk

i agree 100%.

having a team and showing that your stuff actually works (in racing / competition conditions) is immensely important.
just marketing your product and explaining the benefits just doesn´t work.
it´s a really extremely minor percentage of possible customers mostly with an engineering background who judge a product by itself. like: "wow, with this specs, this HAS to be a good racing deck."

when i get sceptic to outright negative comments it´s mostly:
"well, most pro-riders are superfast with heavy plywood decks so why bother with a composite deck 4 times as expensive."

that my production cost is multiple times that of a plywood deck (material and mostly worktime) is of no interest to the customer and doesn´t has to be.
if the customer understands that he really gets a different value for his money things start to change.

without the comments of satisfied customers here on SF i would be long out of business. (thanks SF!)

to compete (in biz) with cheaper wood decks only works when you can PROVE your product is superior. for that i need to have a team and market it.


best example for a an evoulution in equipment is skiing and snowboarding.
snowboarding went through the same technical evolution like skiing when it actually could have lept straight to composites.

would any ordinary customer today doubt that he would benefit from modern composite materials compared to a massive hickory ski or an edgeless plywood snowboard?
are they willing to pay the money charged for engineered sporting equipement?

would an modern composite skateboard with US$ 300 cnc´ed trucks outrace a 70´s board on a straight course like signal hill?
probably not.

would a hobby or pro racer benefit from highly calibrated equipement on a technical european mountain road with changing surface qualities and tight hairpins?
i firmly believe so.

does the differece to a plywood deck with stock randal trucks justify the higher price?
not for a kid with just his pocket money to spend.

as long as people are only willing to pay a toy´s price they have to understand that they´ll only get that value.
agreed -- a US$ 300 complete isn´t a toy and you can race on it.
but thse prices are still ridiculously low compared to other gliding or racing sports.

does it make a difference to ride a EURO 800-900 complete?
ask my teamriders who prefer paying me my material costs (and a little beer money) to getting wood decks for free from other companies.

it´s hard to market a lifestyle in downhill or slalom racing. it´s easier to do this with simple complete cruising setups which don´t need to be tech.
i think best example here is GFH who do an excellent job: out of nowhere in 2005 to the pages literally everywhere in 2006.
AFAIK their team consists of SURFERS not even skaters.
that is pure lifestyle marketing at it´s best and it seems to work for them.

this kind of marketing simply doesn´t work for me.
or i would decide to go for an additional cheap mass produced model which i could (only) lifestyle-market. this one cheap model would multiple my earnings.
BUT this one cheap model would mess up my image as a true manufacturer (in it´s literal meaning: building by hand).

so i have to keep in my niche try to market my product and a small team and skip on lifestyle marketing.

Alex,well put,especially the GFH example.At the end of the day ,we just keep on keepin on.its passion that drives what we do,but sometimes i think,when you have a group of people that are this passionate,that it cant help but be contagious.cfav

[Xgecko]

Regardless of how it's marketed for many skateboarding is a lifestyle...I skate as often as daily or as little as weekly but I always skate. What I skate has expanded from park/ramp/pool to distance, DH/cruising, and slalom. As for how well the marketing works on me probably not very good except for Independent T-shirts, I have 3 pairs of DC shoes that I bought in Korea for a huge discount (3 years ago) and 1 pair of Vans Rowley 2's that I save for pools (bought 5 years ago). my pants/shorts I buy at Old Navy because it's cheap and I never look like the rest of the skaters at the park well the ones under 30 anyway most of old guys seem to look the same. The only skate mag I read with any regularity is Concrete Wave and the ocasional Juice when it's got something that interests me. I do watch video's/DVD's but it's usually something like Northwest, Chlorine or Fruit of the Vine. Skateboarding is a huge part of my lifestyle but not like the majority of the industry seems to think, I could care less about clothes or shoes or pretty much any of the crap sold in most skateshops which includes all the popscicle boards that everyone says I have to have to skate parks and such.

[hanksurf]

Originally Posted by Slim

One other possible outcome, and the one I'd prefer, is that the current "middleman" based skate industry would disappear. There wouldn't be enough profit involved to have a guy in his office ordering products from a manufacturer and then sellling them to a distributor who then sells them again to a retailer who then finally sells it to the customer as the forth time the product has been sold! Companies can make their own boards and sell them direct and still survive. Whether they do this with pro-teams or just as blanks or whatever doesn't matter to me. I just hope that the industry remains controlled by people who actually skate.

My hope as well... thanks Slim. Some of the most thoughtful posts about the skate biz I've ever read online. At the end though, we still need more great retailers like MHM to get the board under our feet so we can ride away grinning.