Wells, i'm not missing your point. I'm just disagreeing with it. I've just come to a point in my life where i no longer believe that it is the fault of the dominant party that the dominated party aren't doing as well. Life is a competition. We are animals. Why blame the winners for not taking it easy on the losers? I mean, I'm a big fan of compassion, in the buddhist sense. But that doesn't mean accepting the whining excuses of victims for why they aren't as _______ as other people are. If men have successfully built a glass ceiling that will keep women down, then what does that say about women? Break that glass sisters! Or ignore the male dominated companies and start your own and succeed on your own. But enough of people blaming men for the fact that they are better at some things than women are.
BTW, HC, I bet you're right about female readership of Thrasher vs. Concrete Wave.
slim....if you want to live like an animal go live in a cave....we as humans were given these wonderful brains to resist our animal urges( well aside from procreation)....so should we act like beasts and step on the necks of the weaker people or should we extend our hand towards them and offer a helping hand. now we are biologically different and that does affect some sports, but as far as skating goes it doesn't make a difference. look at other top female athletes, body builders, and fitness stars..now imagine if these women skated...ill leave you with that to think about but if you don't agree thats your thing man, i just hope you understand
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What if one of the tactics a "dominated" party uses to break the glass is to call the existence of the glass into contention? Should we be patting the operators of chinese sweatshops for their competitive prowess and telling the whining, complaining laborers to make their own factory because we're tired of hearing them bleat about being dominated or oppressed by the man?
This thread sure took a turn, eh?
it's called a union. I feel sorry for the suckers for not knowing any better and living in Socrates' cave but noone said life was fair.
wake up and make a better life for yourself because people shitting on you dont sleep
What if one of the tactics a "dominated" party uses to break the glass is to call the existence of the glass into contention? Should we be patting the operators of chinese sweatshops for their competitive prowess and telling the whining, complaining laborers to make their own factory because we're tired of hearing them bleat about being dominated or oppressed by the man?
This thread sure took a turn, eh?
Sure did turn - not sorry though. Some of the best discussions spring from the strangest places.
However, to address your point E,
Don't pat the operators of Chinese (or any other) sweatshops but do encourage people to improve their lot and help them do so once they commit. It is the responsibility of ourselves before others to improve our situation.
If this was not true, why would China, Canada (free Mark Steyn!), Russia, Saudi, Iran and other totalitarian/authoritarian govt's be continually shutting down media like that on the web that they disagree with?
Howz Dat for a zinger E?
And wells, I could care less if you are gay and/or makin it with animals etc... - you keep missing the point and it looks more and more deliberate.
You can lead the horse to water.....
slim....if you want to live like an animal go live in a cave....we as humans were given these wonderful brains to resist our animal urges( well aside from procreation)....so should we act like beasts and step on the necks of the weaker people or should we extend our hand towards them and offer a helping hand.
So...you're basically saying that women are "weaker people" that need hands extended to help them out? See, this is the problem with the arguments you guys are making. You think you are complementing women and standing up for their abilities. But what you're really saying is that they need help because they aren't capable of doing it on their own. That is condescending. I'd like to simply stay out of the way and leave them the honor of having the opportunity of competing in a fair competition and prove themselves to be as capable or more capable than the men they'd be competing against.
"But they haven't had the same opportunities or access as men," you'll say, "and that's an unfair disadvantage." Well, how did men get opportunities and access? Didn't they create it them themselves? What is possibly unfair about that? And would it therefore be fair to women to give them some sort of help or would you basically be insulting them by telling them that they aren't capable of doing it without your help?
Either women can do the same as men, without help, since they are equally as talented as men like you want to say they are, or they can't do the same because they suffer from some sort of biological disadvantage for the particular activities we are discussing (though they clearly have biological advantages for other activities). Or my third option: we'll never know because most women just aren't interested in the competition. I'm no spring chicken, so I've met many women, from many countries around the world, from many walks of life, and all education levels, intelligence levels, income levels, resource levels, I'm pretty much convinced that most women just aren't interested having such a competition with men in the fields that men have traditionally been interested in. I don't blame them. I'm not interested in most of it either.
I believe:
Women are better at some things then men.
Men are better at some things than women.
Some women are better than some men at things that men are overall better at.
Some men are better than some women at things that women are overall better at.
And lastly, men and women in general are interested in vastly different things in life and it is silly to try to push either into roles they don't want to play.
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Pacifica, CA
"the pen is weak. skateboarding is as deadly as all hell" - gonz
I've read/heard that skating's core demographic has an attrition rate of something like 85%. No mention of gender, so let's assume for a moment that they're all males. If that's the case, then where's the hue and cry over losing all those "bro's"?
Skating has its own sense of entropy. If you want--or feel the need--to "change" it, start in your own backyard and get involved with your scene (that's left as an exercise to the reader). And while you're at it, stop reading the mainstream skate magazines. Their job isn't "nurturing," it's selling ad space.
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So...you're basically saying that women are "weaker people" that need hands extended to help them out? See, this is the problem with the arguments you guys are making. You think you are complementing women and standing up for their abilities. But what you're really saying is that they need help because they aren't capable of doing it on their own. That is condescending. I'd like to simply stay out of the way and leave them the honor of having the opportunity of competing in a fair competition and prove themselves to be as capable or more capable than the men they'd be competing against.
no...i am not saying they are weak i am saying that when you have alot of negative force against them in a sport where they could excel if encouraged. i guess the extending of the hand analogy was too much but what im trying to say is that we as males that participate in this sport should try and encourage more girls to skate and denounce negative views of women..i see your argument about women proving themselves im all for that. hell if MLK Malcolm X, and other civil rights activists didn't stand up for my peoples rights I would have to drink from the colored fountain. If I was to use your logic, those men and women who fought for civil rights that were black were weak because they had help from whites if you are trying to bring people together be it in society or in a sport you should work together not just leave the others behind....im sure women could easily become equal if not better than men in this sport but why not strengthen our bonds and help each other out. the girls that i skate with aren't insulted when i help them and neither am i when they help me, i don't see why that would bother anyone unless they are just an asshat, if someone is sincerely trying help there is nothing wrong with that.
__________________ I support Arcane Boards Quiver
HC-47..tracker 149's..83mm 78a flys
Corchia..indy 169's..s9 banditos
42" arcane topmount..tracker fastracks..71mm 81 bennetts
oh and leadfoot RULZ
Last edited by RastamanD; 01-08-2008 at 10:42 PM..
We're never going to be able to definitively say whether societal gender roles are a result of biology, socialization, or some mixture of the two.
Women were considered the property of their husbands less than a century ago. They weren't allowed into ivy league schools until 50 years ago. While we've made significant progress against sexism in the intervening period, it's still strong and needs to be fought. I don't think 100 years of feminism is enough to counteract 4,000 years of male privilege (unfamiliar with the idea of male privilige? hit this link: The Male Privilege Checklist).
Ocian: do you know anything at all about the labor laws in these countries? You risk your life when you try to organize a union in a developing-world sweatshop.
don't think 100 years of feminism is enough to counteract 4,000 years of male privilege (unfamiliar with the idea of male privilige? hit this link: The Male Privilege Checklist).
I'm not arguing that the male privilege isn't real. All I'm saying is it is something men gained themselves. It wasn't given to them. And therefore there is nothing inherently "unfair" about it. Men competed against women and men won out and gained the advantage. Are men supposed to apologize for that? Were they supposed to purposefully be worse at things, weaker, dumber, or whatever so that women would win and become the leaders instead? Or should men just have used what their biological evolution gave them to the best of our abilities and if that allowed males to rise to the top, then things are just as they should be?
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Pacifica, CA
"the pen is weak. skateboarding is as deadly as all hell" - gonz
I bought a set of Hubba wheels and flatspotted them on the very first trick I did. No sliding even took place, I simply did a backside flip and when I landed and rolled away they sounded like a motorcycle...I definitely dont recommend those wheels to anyone.
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I'm not arguing that the male privilege isn't real. All I'm saying is it is something men gained themselves. It wasn't given to them. And therefore there is nothing inherently "unfair" about it. Men competed against women and men won out and gained the advantage. Are men supposed to apologize for that? Were they supposed to purposefully be worse at things, weaker, dumber, or whatever so that women would win and become the leaders instead? Or should men just have used what their biological evolution gave them to the best of our abilities and if that allowed males to rise to the top, then things are just as they should be?
"Men" may perpetuate the system of male privilege; but neither you nor I earned the privilege we've got. We were born into it.
If everyone followed this logic, we'd still have slavery. After all, didn't white people earn their positions as slave-owners? Are we supposed to apologize for being a more advanced society that was able to exploit the Africans? Should we have moved to Africa and hunted gazelles just to make things fair, or should we have used what biological evolution gave us and if that allowed us to rise to the top, then things were as they should have been?
Yeah I'm a Lifer, 30 years off and on of skating, man I think about it everyday, I look at the ditches wen I drive by, I look at parking garages all the time, hills. Yeah I'm a Lifer 8)
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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cold beer in one hand - longboard in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming, Yeaa Haaa What A Ride!!!
Are men supposed to apologize for that? Were they supposed to purposefully be worse at things, weaker, dumber, or whatever so that women would win and become the leaders instead?
Re: skateboard stereotypes...from Curriculum magazine
if you are trying to bring people together be it in society or in a sport you should work together not just leave the others behind....im sure women could easily become equal if not better than men in this sport but why not strengthen our bonds and help each other out. the girls that i skate with aren't insulted when i help them and neither am i when they help me, i don't see why that would bother anyone unless they are just an asshat, if someone is sincerely trying help there is nothing wrong with that.
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