Gesmer on Industry Conspiracy against Longboarding on Grassy Knoll

[sk8norcal]

Anyone read the 'Back to the Future' article in CW ?

Apparently Dan wrote a in-depth analysis of the skate market for Saloman in '94...

"In the late 1970's and early 1980's, the California -based skateboard industry shifted virtually all it's attention to aggressive, high-impact styles practiced primarily by teenager males. These styles were becoming extremely popular and were arguably the most photogenic. However, the dominant manufacurers may also have coolly calculated that a narrower market -- one more concerned with the equipment's graphic adornments, image, and durability than with finer performance characteristics -- would be easier to control compared to a market diversified along demographic status and equipment performance requirements"

"In the opinion of Seismic, the industry leaders have feared that supporting the type of broad approach seen in the 1970's would encourage new companies to introduce innovative products and transform the market"

Dan comments, "In the late 70's and early 80's, did the leaders for the skateboard industry conspire to narrow the market's horizons so as to maintain better control? I do not have enough inside information to say yes or no with any certainty. However, fear can lead even the best of us to take actions that run counter to the greater good."

Mulder? Scully? Cigarette smoking man?

[Parallel Man]

I've heard this stuff before and I just have a hard time believing George Powell, Larry Gordon and Tom Sims got together in '82 and made a deal to screw the sport.

It is more a case of simple market forces: maximum profit for minimal costs. Standardizing EVERYTHING to the point of boredom ensure low costs and great margins. In other words, pretty much like the American auto industry in the 1960s. Ford, GM and Chrysler did not conspire to come out with the Gremlin, Pinto and Vega. They all just looked at the same data and misinterpreted it.

Today the longboard manufacturers and specialty equipment guys from all the way up to Sector 9 to all the way down to a Radikal making two trucks a day are the Japanese imports turning the market upside down. They certainly don't control the world YET, but then again who saw a Datsun B210 and ever thought that would lead to Chrysler going broke?

[Alpha06]

Haha yeah, they might have limited innovation amongst themselves, but then that just created an open test market for enterpreneurs to do with as they wish (high performance is hot and in demand right now)

[SteveC]

Personally there's been an evolutionary cycle going on.

Certain disciplines destroy boards quicker, skaters subscribing to said discipline buy boards more often.
Company gets more money from these models, has cash and incentive to promote these types of boards.

Repeat.

Skate and destroy = break your board - buy a new one from us.



however the pool has become stagnant. The fish are crawling out.

[skategeezer]

yeah, the fish are crawling out ...onto silverfish forums...

no real conspiracy...just myopia, a dash of greed, a pinch of control and the old chestnut "if ain't broke, why fix it?"

the fish have come home to roost...
mixed metaphors, chaps...hell, I think I am still on Swiss time!

[Wells]

Dude, nobody else is into fruity figure skateboarding. People like getting air. Get over it.

[rawls]

Its not about air, its about hair! haha

Its about keeping a product in the market place by placing the emphasis on accessories for that product. ie: plastics, graphics, softgoods, shoes, etc.

The accessories keep the original product line feasible, but dillute the original product intent. Basically it becomes a status or peer thing-- lifestyle, where the original product is just along for the ride.

If the lifestyle begins to sour, then the "accessories" (the driving force of the profit) no longer have a market. All the while, the original product line keeps on keeping on by the people that use the original product for its intended purpose, and people that sell the original product for its intended purpose.

[Terry Trimble]

I read the article it has some merits to it. Back in the 70's and early 80's all we had was Magazines or a Bud Brown excerpt in a surf film to go by what was hot in skateboarding. Or what was hot at the skateboard parks in the 70's.
Now Skateboarder magazine and others of the 70's did a great job of covering all aspects of skateboarding like Concrete Wave. But who's photos showed up in magazines was mostly up to Warren Bolster and few other photographers of skateboarder magazine.
The present day major magazines are the same way at Transgirl oh I mean Transworld ,Thrasher,Slap,Big Brother, Poweredge tried to do something different but it died.

So if you did get your photo or your type of skateboarding in the magazine you became some what a wealthy person. But Vert skating was so infectious so rad looking and easy to shoot just show up at the park and stand on the pool edge or deck of half pipe. With a 17mm lens and burn film. If you owned this type of lens and cameras they were very expensive back in 70's. You had to have quite a few photography classes to learn how to use the camera with great results back in 1970's.

But to set up your camera at a slalom or downhill if you want to get more camera angles than the 15th cone or hay bail corner it is a lot of work for a photographer.

Freestyle contest are just weird and hard to watch mostly only freestyle skater can understand how hard It is to master the tricks. The contest are for the skaters themselves. Freestyle is more of demo type skateboarding.{I hate to say this because I specialized in freestyle in contests}

Then the 1980's came around the some of the point and click cameras came out you could get a Cannon eos 10 that shot 10 frames a second and 17mm lens for about $600,00. So if you had the money you could shoot but the skate photography biz is hard to get to be a member of it's clan and get photos published. Then you don't make squat in less you get the cover or back ad page
Daniel Harold Sturt explained that to me.

Also the team skate videos or Vision contest videos came out it was cool..Alot of people wore out the pause button on their remote so they could see how to do the tricks.
But what you viewed was still in the hands of a few.

You had more photographers contributing photos like street skating photos in the 80's especially during the large jump ramp era it was spectacular to watch and shoot photos and video of back then.

The manufactures loved street skating during the jump ramp era you could go through board every day if you did not land right.
Gator told me that that Vision came up with testing the minimum width a board could be back then was 7.75 inches at the hips of the rear truck or it would snap if you landed slightly wrong.

Then street skating became real dangerous stairs ,gaps, handrails {Can you say nut busters} people were getting hurt really bad . Then street became more flatland technical on obstacles . Street skating has become the new freestyle with only a few could do the tricks it killing it self just like freestyle did. You can only slap so many curbs if you want to have fun easy street skating before it becomes boring.

It no wonder that long boarding, downhill ,slalom,pool, ditch skating, long distance, transportation skateboarding have come back it's FUN as hell. You don't have to invest 6 hours a day 65 twisted ankles like I did in freestyle. Everybody and anybody can do some form of skateboarding we don't have to have a magazine tell us what is cool.
Because we will find other skater that do what we do in the digital age we get to see video clips on you tube or photos on any list right away in this age. So we don't have a large magazine and telling us what is cool anymore. We see the world of skateboarding through thousand of eyes. Instead of a few photo or video editors.

That what I like about Concrete Wave Michael has made it a point to show the different sides of skateboarding through the eyes of the world of skateboarding.

So that my take on what has happen in skateboarding and why things happened the way they did in my eyes.

[rich (lush)]

Originally Posted by Terry Trimble

But to set up your camera at a slalom or downhill if you want to get more camera angles than the 15th cone or hay bail corner it is a lot of work for a photographer.

It's not too hard if you don't mind lying in a ditch and the light is kind... Jackson Shapiera and Jeff Budro at Almabtrieb...



...or if you shoot board to board with a fisheye like Yorck does... but that's kind of sketchy in a race! Though it is now common to see Yvon Labarthe filming race runs from a Street Luge... who will be the first still photographer to cover a race run from a skateboard? Scary...

[Terry Trimble]

That's a beautiful composed Photo and you proved my point we got to see the photo in a instant.

Only a few teenage Ollie kids would understand the beauty of skater going fast in the simplest form of skateboarding carving around a corner.

The photo remind me of Formula one races were they set a video camera right next to the track and control it remotely.

It's not too hard if you don't mind lying in a ditch and the light is kind

If you were Warren Bolster, J Grant Britain or a few other I don't think they would lay in a
Ditch to get the photo.
Daniel Harold Sturt , Rick Kosick , Mark Waters, Tod swank may lay in the ditch or set up the camera with lighting to run by remote control.
I can wait to see photos from the skateboard in the spirit of George Greenough who use to shoot movie and still following surfers rubber ducking it on surf mat before Body boards came out.
What nice about the digital age is you don't have to burn through film like crazy.
You look at the photos you took on the rear screen of the camera and delete the bad ones and shoot some more. Plus it easier to carry extra memory sticks than rolls of film in your pockets.

[Xgecko]

Technology has a ways to go before I see anyone shooting stills of a race from a a skateboard while going down the hill. However there is no reason I can think of why a camera person could be on the back of a motorcycle shooting stills like they are for the Tour De France