that extreme torrent...extremebits.org is causing quite a stir!

[skategeezer]

from transworldbiz!



The file sharing site ExtremeBits.org is a BitTorrent tracker that allows users to upload and share copyrighted action sports videos for free. The site is supported through member donations and exists behind some serious cloak and dagger server masking which allows them to remain anonymous. The stated goal of the site is ” to provide users a portal for sharing material and experiences related to extreme sports.”
Said sharing of materials has filmers up in arms about their work being distributed for free, often shortly after release. A recent post from “Java” on snowfilmer.com reads as follows:
Hey everyone,
Just and FYI. There is a bit torrent website out there at the moment called “extremebits.org”. They regularly take snowboard movies etc…and host them on their site just days after they have been released. There are others that do the same thing, which sucks, but extremebits, especially sucks because of the email I saw this morning from a good friend of mine who was venting to me. Here’s what it looked like:
From my friend:
“Hey there, I just found my film on your site, “** ******* ***” by **** **** ***********. We would really appreciate it if you take this
film down. We worked really hard on this snowboard film and really don’t
appreciate it being on here. I really don’t want to get into a debate
over the ethics of downloading movies, but as a film maker who has made
snowboard films for the last 10 years, I would really appreciate it if
our film which has been out for less than two weeks was taken down off
this site. It’s one thing to put up older films (even this I have a hard
time with) but how do you expect us as film makers to keep producing
quality work (something you guys obviously seem to like if you’re
willing to steal for it) if there is no way to make any kind of profit
(which isn’t a lot by the way)
Thanks a lot,
**** ** ***** ***********
Here is extremebits.org’s reply:
‘As you might have noticed, your account at ExtremeBits.org was banned. I
still feel you should get a response though.
I love how you say you dont want to get into a debate about the ethics
of downloading movies, and yet, you do exactly that when you inform us
how much of a hard time you morally have with it, and call it
“stealing”. What you really meant to say was that you have the right to
voice your opinion, but we for some reason should refrain from doing so.
If you need money so badly, maybe you should set up a donation-button on
your site, and people who dont want to order a version pressed on a
plastic disc can donate whatever they feel the movie is worth. People
are not going to buy square wheels when there are round ones. If you
want profit, stick some ads in there, get some sponsors, what the ####
do I know. Or maybe, you know, as they say “dont quit your day job”. As
far as Im concerned, if you dont think you have the best job editing
movies and snowboarding around all day, you can stop doing it. See if
100 kids with a laptop and a camera aren’t around to take your place.
I hate how you guys have become the new hollywood. Snowboarding used to
be about doing rad #### and sticking it to the man. For you its about
profit. You are the man and people are sticking it to you.
You should be proud people are excited about your film.
The ExtremeBits.org staff’”
The forum goes on to share some quality detective work on where ExtremeBits.org’s servers are hosted and the tracker experienced a distributed denial-of-service attack shortly thereafter. An error message on the site reads “Hi, we have experienced about 12 hours of downtime because of a DDoS attack on our DNS server. The DNS has been relocated, so some users might still have issues with accessing the site.”
Numerous BitTorrent trackers have faced raids and shutdowns due to claims of copyright infringement. However, this is often hard to prove as BitTorrent metafiles do not physically store copyrighted data, therefore, it has been claimed that BitTorrent trackers, which only store and track the metafiles, should be legal since the data they store is not technically copyrighted. Despite this claim, there has been massive legal pressure, usually on behalf of the MPAA & RIAA’ s around the world to shut down BitTorrent trackers.
Many governments around the world are cracking down on BitTorrent site hosts, and in Latvia the largest hosting server was shut down in August and all of the administrators were arrested. The UK and Finland have also shut down sites and arrested admins and owners, recently, but it is proving difficult to get convictions due to a lack of stored copyrighted material. There have also been numerous arrests and at least one conviction of registered BitTorrent users who actually uploaded copyrighted materials. This neo-Napster type software, which is specifically designed to transfer large files such as movies, has resulted in arrests of its users in the UK, Finland, Latvia, and Hong Kong to name a few. The first conviction for this type of infringement took place in Hong Kong in 2005 where a man received a four-year sentence for uploading three movies.
Whether this ultimately turns out to be deemed illegal, the fact is that these sites are prevalent globally and allow huge volumes of movies to change hands without compensating the people behind them. A brief scan of the snow movies available on ExtremeBits.org turns up more than 325 features including “It’s Always Snowing Somewhere,” “No Correct Way,” and “Down with People.”Members of the action sports video industry are increasingly working to fine tune their business models in a digital age where sites like this are proliferating along with the number of films being released each year.
Stay tuned to Transworld Business for coverage of the state of the action sports video industry.
Tags: bittorrent, extremebits.org, snowfilmer.com

[bakersfield90]

i'll wait for someone to summarize that.

[Blackmore]

wow those guys are douches, i wont be downloading anything from them

[aaronaftershock]

Even though the torrent site is really inconsiderate for denying a personal request from the maker to take the film down, they do bring up some valid points.

[Moogleluvr]

As much as it's nice for films to be easily available, this site's reply to the moviemaker pretty much said "Up yours. I don't care how hard you worked on it. People don't have to pay for it if they don't like it."

...A bunch of assholes.

[chungmaster]

well that's kinda what we do when we download music and movies....

[Braden343]

those guys really have no respect for someone trying to make a living, if these guys start making good money of this site (don't know if they already are), and it eventually gets shut down and they get sent to jail, maybe they'll realize being a tough guy behind a screen, and being a tough guy while facing 100s of lawsuits is quite different.

[Hanael]

Originally Posted by aaronaftershock

Even though the torrent site is really inconsiderate for denying a personal request from the maker to take the film down, they do bring up some valid points.

you should check TPB takedown notices.
lulz.



And also, i guess it's time for a change

[chrismcb]

Originally Posted by aaronaftershock

Even though the torrent site is really inconsiderate for denying a personal request from the maker to take the film down, they do bring up some valid points.

Which points do they have that are valid?
I didn't see a single valid point in the response.

[SteveC]

it's possible to get advertising money for a video that never gets on dvd.
just unleashed 'viral' so to speak.
Other than that, not a lot of what he said holds any water.

[southshorelocal]

i love torrents i dont think that there are any differences from burning a cd for a buddy and downloading a torrent

[chungmaster]

Originally Posted by southshorelocal

i love torrents i dont think that there are any differences from burning a cd for a buddy and downloading a torrent

There basically is none. And i've heard both are illegal, but i dunno about the former.

It does suck for producers. But then it's kinda like downloading music. Technology is changing the industry. We can make better quality videos but then everyone has access to them. Is that bad? We have better methods to stream to an audience, but maybe too great of an audience. Maybe we have to change the old model, because we will never go back to the old days. I know a lot of artists are starting to distribute music for free and then in turn get more crowds at their shows.

Spreading free stuff also garners more attention. Like maybe you or I would buy a Maryhill DVD, but would your next door neighbor? If it's free then they might check it out just because. Spread awareness and then there is a possibility that it will benefit in the long run. You might not reap the benefits at first but maybe later. Especially since this is such a niche sport just getting an image out there may help the industry as a whole.

Just IMHO

[Benito]

they have a point about the donation button though. If fans want to support them, they can give them money via paypal of something.

If anything, not printing dvd's saves them money, and if the dvd gets alot of downloads, they are getting more exposure for their next film (considering if this one was even worth looking at and they plan on a sequel).


I mean, every technine snowboard video is available for release on torrents, but Finga on the Trigga productions isn't complaining... Same with burton, forum, MDP, PBP, ect...

[SpeedFiend]

the more people who see your work, the better. get a real job if you wanna get paid, film is for rich peoples kids.

[longboardertwan]

Everyone's dream is to get paid to do what they love and bit torrents and p2p networks are helping to break down that possibility for creative peoples especially for those who don't do any sort of live performance. How many "action sports" (who else hates that term?) videos are in movie theaters being viewed on large screens by large crowds? I don't think many if any for more than a premiere night so they bank on hard copy sales to fund the next project or maybe on legal downloads like from Itunes. The funny thing is that as I am saying this I know that I will be putting my creative projects online for free for whoever wants to see or hear them because you do need an audience and it is the easiest way to reach millions of people rather than the 5 guys in the bar on a tuesday night that you got the gig for. The rampant use of online file sharing and the commercialization of cheap and effective proconsumer level audio and video production hardware and software at reasonable prices is what has got us here and is what is and will destroy big business media giants. This will allow for more variety and more creativity because more people are able to publish high quality media but it also means that some rich kids are going to make shitty high quality media that floods over what is actually art. It really is the strangest time that we live in and me being in school for recording right now...man the future shall be interesting...

[Wells]

Hasn't this argument played out on the internet like 300000000 times in the last 10 years?

[TwinTown Skater]

What's 300,000,001 among friends?

The power of the internet is that it democratizes. The problem with the internet is it allows the bilous excrement to be equated with the worthy.

While it might be justifiable that a bunch of studios and music producers limited value add should result in smaller incomes, does it follow that there is no media for which it is worth paying?

[jeff189]

Welcome to the future, suck it up and adapt. When I was a kid, playing in bands trying to get a name out there I would have killed for such an awesome distribution system.

[chrismcb]

Originally Posted by SpeedFiend

the more people who see your work, the better. get a real job if you wanna get paid, film is for rich peoples kids.

So only rich peoples kids should be allowed to film a television show? Only rich peoples kids should make movies? Perhaps only rich peoples kids should film the next Maryhill?

Burning a DVD/CD and giving it to a friend is NO different than copying it off the torrent. Both are illegal, and no matter how you look at it, neither put money in the hands of the producers.

Yes, you are right, free distribution gets stuff into more peoples hands. But if your product IS the thing you are distributing, getting more people to see it for free doesn't help you. Sure if you are a new band, getting everyone to hear your first song for free is awesome, cause then they might pay for your concert. Or if you are Go Fast getting people to see the Eastbourne video for fre eis awesome, cause maybe you'll buy more Go Fast.

But if your product is the movie itself, and you are trying to sell it, then someone giving it away is stealing from you. Saying it is the wave of the future, or technology or whatever doesn't make it anymore right. You might tell yourself "well I wouldn't have paid for it anyways" but then you wouldn't pay for that Bentley either, but for some reason you also don't take it for a joyride.

Yeah putting a donation button on the website is a great idea. BUT it doesn't give someone else the right to redistribute the product for free.

As for the people who say "go get a real job." Guess what? The person who isn't making any money producing a kickass video IS going to get a paying job, and we won't have any more kickass videos. Sure some amateurs will make decent videos. But we'll have way more amateurish videos to slog through.

And yes this topic has been debated many many times on the tubes, and yet everyone thinks it is still OK to steal someone elses work, and that there won't be any consequences.

[dirtyhippy]

im poor and apathetic.. take a quick guess on what my stance on this subject is. if i could afford to support every producer, director, artist, athlete, etc... i would, but i cant. i can barely make rent and pay bills. if its a multi million dollar block buster im watching illegally i really dont care but on the contrary if it is something like a snowboard video or something else i feel like strongly supporting i will usually buy the dvd..