Abec 11 Updates

[borisdamole]

the weightbearing side of the axles are cnced the welds are there to ensure a good fit and a strong hold on the axle

also whatever happene to:

It appears there is a cnc'd radius in the hanger its self that centers the axle for welding, but the axle is not CNC fit directly to the hanger.... it basically appears that at one point the aluminum tubes that hold the axles are a separate piece than the truck... the weld is what holds the axle on then.... that is a perfectly acceptable design, im just saying its not cnc'd as one piece, the hanger starts as three, and is welded....

[snozzboarder55]

I would think doing an axle system like The BEAR SMOKEY truck would be more practical from a machining standpoint... Axles could be changed if bent, and could be thicker the whole length except the bearing seat... also, then consumers could choose Ti, or mild steel for the axles....

you cannot compare smokeys to these, they work differently and the design is similar but the differences are more than subtle. im sure Ti is used to ensure a strong axel, misho said he was using a randal axel spaced out to his preference and it bent. with a stronger axel this is less of an issue. yes interchangeable axels would be great, but after hearing about these trucks for over a year and seeing the R&D that went into them, ill trust the final decision of Chaput.

and for the weld line, i was talking with someone who said that for mass production, machining the axel housing and hanger separately and then welding them together could cut down on costs. if these were a limited run of only a couple dozen or so, then it would not be that cost effective, but since these are supposedly going to be a "mass" produced truck, the welding/machining of the two parts is cheaper in the long run.

[borisdamole]

you cannot compare smokeys to these, they work differently and the design is similar but the differences are more than subtle. im sure Ti is used to ensure a strong axel, misho said he was using a randal axel spaced out to his preference and it bent. with a stronger axel this is less of an issue. yes interchangeable axels would be great, but after hearing about these trucks for over a year and seeing the R&D that went into them, ill trust the final decision of Chaput.

and for the weld line, i was talking with someone who said that for mass production, machining the axel housing and hanger separately and then welding them together could cut down on costs. if these were a limited run of only a couple dozen or so, then it would not be that cost effective, but since these are supposedly going to be a "mass" produced truck, the welding/machining of the two parts is cheaper in the long run.

I never "compared" them to smokeys, i simply suggested the interchangeable axles could be incorporated into the design.... Weather or not it is limited or mass production, it would probably be cheaper to weld them... aviation drills are expensive and that is what would be needed to do an all cnc truck. If they were in full mass production (aka 10000) then all cnc would be they way to go, but for just a few hundred or thousand, welding is way easier and cheaper and probably the way to go....

[snozzboarder55]

I never "compared" them to smokeys, i simply suggested the interchangeable axles could be incorporated into the design.... Weather or not it is limited or mass production, it would probably be cheaper to weld them... aviation drills are expensive and that is what would be needed to do an all cnc truck. If they were in full mass production (aka 10000) then all cnc would be they way to go, but for just a few hundred or thousand, welding is way easier and cheaper and probably the way to go....

sorry, compared was the wrong word. i meant that because one truck has a feature, that another truck that is made differently may not be able to "copy" that design feature.

[mcpenguin]

you cannot compare smokeys to these, they work differently and the design is similar but the differences are more than subtle. im sure Ti is used to ensure a strong axel, misho said he was using a randal axel spaced out to his preference and it bent. with a stronger axel this is less of an issue. yes interchangeable axels would be great, but after hearing about these trucks for over a year and seeing the R&D that went into them, ill trust the final decision of Chaput.

and for the weld line, i was talking with someone who said that for mass production, machining the axel housing and hanger separately and then welding them together could cut down on costs. if these were a limited run of only a couple dozen or so, then it would not be that cost effective, but since these are supposedly going to be a "mass" produced truck, the welding/machining of the two parts is cheaper in the long run.

mischo rode the version that is less wide a while back. They did not have titanium axels either, but they were widened significantly from slalom width to downhill width roughly. this makes it extremely fragile and easy to bend. with the wider and more solid design now it could use steel without bending it, but Ti is still awesome i just dont wanna pay for it

[slide]

Ti is still awesome i just dont wanna pay for it

Then don't.

[ChrisChaput]

A couple quick notes:

Fyre Trucks are PRECISION high performance racing trucks for Downhill and Slalom. They have been designed so that less expensive cast versions may be produced in the future, but currently they are only availbable in CNC'd aluminum, titanium, and steel materials.

Liquid Trucks will be semi-precision cast aluminum longboard trucks that have features and benefits not found on any other truck.

All of my trucks come in a number of different hanger widths and have several different baseplate angles. They use strong straight axles and the best bushings and cup washers and kingpins on the market.

History:

Fyre Trucks were originally developed as a Slalom truck with the intention of later testing them out for Downhill at higher speeds. The early hanger widths were 3.5" wide (just under 90mm) and we allowed room on the axles to space them out to about 110mm. These narrower versions can be very quick turning and yet stable and precise at the same time making them perfect for slalom applications. With an increased demand in performance in Downhill Skateboarding, Mischo Erban and Chris Chaput developed and tested the newer/wider versions and found them to perform even better than expected. They are stable at speeds in excess of 70mph and yet smooth turning and precise for railing the turns.

A note on construction - it's not that hard to drill a hole into a 3.5" wide hanger, ream it to a precise size and press fit an axle into it. It's quite a different task to try the same thing on a 7" wide hanger. Drill bits wander, you have to drill from both sides, connect the two holes, ream it, and when you're done with that, you still have to try and press fit an axle into this very long hole without damaging either part. It's not necessarily the best way to do this. I do like strong, straight, through axles in my trucks, and they have to be prevented from pulling out or twisting after being inserted. We came up with a way to use a hanger cut from billet that reduces material costs and machine time, and it also allows our axles to be perfectly aligned and pinned in place before being welded onto the hanger assembly. We are hitting all the critical dimensions within a couple thousandths of an inch so we couldn't be happier.

We're still learning more and more about these trucks as we put more and more tough miles on them. These aren't trucks that you take out and thrash and ollie and grind on and run into curbs with. They are super high performance trucks that add a new dimension to what can be done on a skateboard. Here are some pictures below to help give you an idea of the evolution. We are constantly evolving and this is just the tip of the iceberg ...


The axle is pinned into two "hanger tubes" before being welded onto the hanger assembly



This pictures shows the difference between a 3.5" and 7" hanger and how hard it would be to press-fit an axle into the wide one



Different shaped slalom hangers along the evolutionary path ...

[snozzboarder55]

mischo rode the version that is less wide a while back. They did not have titanium axels either, but they were widened significantly from slalom width to downhill width roughly. this makes it extremely fragile and easy to bend. with the wider and more solid design now it could use steel without bending it, but Ti is still awesome i just dont wanna pay for it

ya i know he was using the slalom hanger, thats why i said it was spaced out. i should've mentioned why/how it was spaced. i think i also read that he used Ti spacers on the axle to achieve his desired width with more strength and i guess it worked out until the larger model truck.

[jmasta]

Looks awesome!

can't wait for these to hit the market

[Golgo13]

I'm considering selling off a chunk of the quiver for a set. I rode a set of the narrow ones a few years back at the shop and was blown away. I can only imagine how awesome they are in a wide hanger.

[skully]

ya i know he was using the slalom hanger, thats why i said it was spaced out. i should've mentioned why/how it was spaced. i think i also read that he used Ti spacers on the axle to achieve his desired width with more strength and i guess it worked out until the larger model truck.

Straight from the Mischo's mouth:

Just to give you a heads up, I will post some more info on the trucks in here in the next few days. I did indeed run Fyre Trucks at DC's Outlaw and as well at all the events I have participated in since then. The ones featured in the picture's from DC's race where the biggest mock prototypes ever! I was using 3 Biltins on the end of the axles on each side to give me the spacing off the small slalom width hangers. The whole system was under tension and relatively risky. I did end up bending the axles which were Randal Downhill axles. Now I have a set with proper spacers and Titanium axles!

More to come soon.

Hardbooter.com

[saltun]

[speshlspeclsteak]

just out of curiocity how does the bottom bushing get tensioned if it doesnt bear any weight?

[ChrisChaput]

just out of curiocity how does the bottom bushing get tensioned if it doesnt bear any weight?

On most other trucks when you tighten up the locknut on the kingpin, the top bushing is compressed and pushes the hanger down more onto the bottom bushing. The truck's geometry (steering angle) is changed (reduced) when this happens. As a rider turns from side to side he is weighting and unweighting his board which means that the load on the bottom bushing is also changing. Some of the load on the bushings is from the rider's weighting and unweighting and some of the load on the bushing is because of the leaning and steering.

On Fyre Trucks however, the load of the rider is carried by the spherical pivot bearings on the pivot pins. The steering angle is constant and unchanged when the board is weighted and unweighted (other than when the board flexes). Therefore ALL of the load on the bushings is caused by the hanger's bushing seats being tilted as a result of the rider leaning and steering the board. This is what I mean when I say that we isolate the two different systems - steering and compression. On Fyre Trucks when you tighten up the locknut on the kingpin, the bottom bushing is being drawn upward into the underside of the hanger's bushing seat while the top bushing is being drawn downward onto the topside of the hanger's bushing seat. That neat little trick is accomplished by my "floating kingpin" system and makes all the difference in the world.

[thatoneblahguy]

so how can the trucks act like a suspention system if the most of the load is on the sphericals and not the bushings?

[dozer jr]

so how can the trucks act like a suspention system if the most of the load is on the sphericals and not the bushings?

wheels i guess, just run pink zigz.

[snozzboarder55]

That neat little trick is accomplished by my "floating kingpin" system and makes all the difference in the world.

whats that now?

[speshlspeclsteak]

interesting.

[lfatboy]

So, so rad. Truly revolutionary truck design.

[skully]

This is what I mean when I say that we isolate the two different systems - steering and compression. On Fyre Trucks when you tighten up the locknut on the kingpin, the bottom bushing is being drawn upward into the underside of the hanger's bushing seat while the top bushing is being drawn downward onto the topside of the hanger's bushing seat. That neat little trick is accomplished by my "floating kingpin" system and makes all the difference in the world.

Or in other words (From some other thread about Fyre Trucks):

That other feature: The kingpin is larger on the bottom with a shoulder for the bottom cup washer [ Which you didn't bother to show ] so that it retains the assembly and provides resistance when adjusting the compression on the bushings. The phantom bushings shown seem to be in a non-compressed state or there would be some space above the baseplate.

For those without x-ray vision, what Wiki is saying is that we've been seeing the one on the left (without compression), but that when you tighten up the locknut enough to compress the bushings, you'll see the bottom cup washer raise itself slightly above the baseplate (like the picture on the right). We're already use to seeing more threads at the top.

This does of course mean that the bottom cup washer has to be strong enough to handle the pressure. Not unlike the top cup washer that has only the bottom of the locknut to support it, the bottom cup washer now has only the shoulder of the kingpin to support it. So, it's beefy cup washers for those who want to compress the hell out of "too soft" of a bushing, rather than just use a firmer set of bushings. I made it easy to take the truck apart so that most people will just use an appropriate bushing. Notice also how easy it is to drop a washer or two onto the shoulder to shim up shorter bushings. In any event, the resulting compression will be unform on the top and bottom of the hanger's bushing seat when the bushings are of the same shape and hardness. You can do anything that you want, but it make sense to put like bushings top and bottom (conical, barrel, hourglass, spherical, etc)

When I want to do a complete hanger swap, I only remove the two pivot nuts and everything slides right off. When I want to change a bottom bushing, I remember to first loosen the kingpin nut, because if I remove the hanger first, the kingpin will spin in my hand when I try to loosen the locknut. I think that making things this simple will encourage people to experiment with different bushings and different baseplate angles. I encourage everyone to NOT use wedge pads and to instead just get the baseplate that you you really want. I think that you'll be able to get one set of hangers, three sets of baseplates and some different decks and put together an impressive, yet inexpensive quiver.

Hardbooter.com