Patriotism

[phunx]

I believe in the equal rights to ALL people. I agree that there are many evil elements at work here but I do not know that the US is going the right way about solving it. I also do not think that anyone deserves what happened on 9/11. However there are alot of things that people do not take into account when disscussing this in a RATIONAL manner.

What North Americans and Britains are doing has its good and bad aspects. We all know that something has to be done but we take too much pride in our lifestyle which clouds our heads when having to make decisions. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy waking up to a secure and safe environment and enjoy the creature comforts of my life, but I also will not say my life is the way all people should live. I understand there are different levels at work but us pushing our way of life on others is no more right than poorer nations saying we are decadent (which I believe we are).

I also find it suspicious that alot of actions have been taken only once an American asset has been jeopardized. This has been the case in the middle east since the mid 80's(as far as I know but it could have been earlier). Everyone seems to forget that it Was the Americans who fought hand in hand with the Afghans against the Soviets. They are also quick to forget that alot of the Sudams arms had come from he Amercians. Everything in this mess is so layered that its hard to tell where to distribute blame and who should be ready to accept it.

I am not surprised, like so many were, that there was an attack on American soil. I am surprised however, that it did not happen sooner. In recent years Americans were attacked by their own people in equally devasting outcomes.(Oklahoma)

What I believe it boils down to for ALL people EVERYWHERE is Patriotism, Idealism, and Religious Loyalty(I am hesitant to say militance because all preachy or forward religious people pose a threat). These are the very values which are held so high as to cause international and domestic war or terrorism. These are the same aspects of life which are not important especially when we should be learning how to live together as friends and people. Acceptance and fairness in EVERYTHING that is done by including distribution or wealth and assets and by not pressuring each other to live anyway other than they want as long as it is peaceful. That includes Americans and any other decadent nation (Canada, which I call my home).

The fact that people look at each other with suspicion and anymosity, now more than ever, is proof of our change in lifestyle. More than any new X-ray machine in the airport does.

I don't want to convey that I think that Americans have brought the disaster of 9/11 upon themselves. The main point I make is that everyone has to start making a real effort to be better people by accepting that which is different and not imposing what they think is the proper way to live. I also understand the hypocrisy of my saying to not impose on others and here I am "preaching"but it has to start at the personal level, so the future Sudams and Bin Ladens and W Bushs' can be raised in a world where peace and understanding are the "Ideals" which everyone can be taught.




Then they can longboard together when they are growing up and be friends.

[longboardbuddha]

and so say all of us....isnt it a pity that its always "us" who are the first to suffer and "them" that decide to either bomb us or send us off to wars...paaaaah i try to love everybody and thats always a good start

[RabidSantaClaus]

another beautiful eulogy..(tears in santa barnacle encrusted eyes after reading). I especially agree with the longboarding and friends part.

[d.max.atx]

Here's another side to the problem. So many people in other nations have this notion that the U.S. government represents the views of all individuals in the country. They couldn't be further from the truth. What our government says and does IS NOT what all Americans feel. Our government is involved in affairs of which none of us even know about. We, the citizens, are hated around the world for actions that we, the citizens, have absolutely nothing to do with. We have a democracy, but the power of the people is limited.

I try to practice tolerance as much as possible, yet get spurned just for being an American. Perfect examples of this are right here on my campus, the largest college in the United States. I work with students from all over the world on projects, and I have been shunned by people who won't associate with me because they think I bombed their homeland. A particular "Middle Eastern" student organization (I won't say the specific nationality so as not to associate other groups of that nationality with this act) openly celebrated the deaths of Americans on campus by gathering on 9/11, and as much as it hurts, it is tolerated here in the land of the "free". This is what I cannot understand: these particular foreign students take full advantage of American rights and exercise them against Americans for being "American", when they don't even have that same freedom of speech and freedom to assemble in their homeland. It's like there's this asterisk on hating the United States: many foreigners hate this country and the people who live in it, yet they milk the system and take full advantages of educational opportunities, personal freedoms, and a much higher standard of living.

Well, I'm getting off topic. I want this point to be clear to the world: the citizens of the U.S. did not "deserve" 9/11. It is extremely narrow minded to associate the acts of the U.S. government on foreign soils to each and every individual citizen in that nation. That's like saying that all Islamic groups are anti-American militants--the statement is completely ludacris. While some Americans support bombing and war, many do not. I'm not an elitist. I'm not a war advocate. I just want to have peace.

[R]

What if achieving peace meant going to war?

[JRod]

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: Much worse is the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight - nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety - is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions and blood of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill

[Anonymous]

I agree totally with phunx, I also think that war is not the way to go. I think old dubbya needs to make a MUCH better case for Iraq before he sends out young boys to get blown to pieces, die, and kill others (yes, Iraqis are humans too). Oither way, I'm off to londboard.

[d.max.atx]

There is a difference between war being inevitable, and war for the sake of war. I cannot claim to know all the facts on foreign affairs. I have no idea what goes on behind closed doors of the White House, nor do I know what is true and what is a lie when we claim that our "intelligence sources" cite a foreign threat. I don't know what Saddam does and doesn't have; whether our government says he's harboring weapons or not. I am neither a Hawk, nor a Dove. However, what I do know is that I love the quality of life that I have here in the U.S. My father served 8 years in the Army and my grandfather was wounded by shrapnel at the age of 18 (I can't even imagine what that is like) in Okinawa in World War II. I'm infinitely proud of what they've done for our country and have the utmost respect for anyone who has served our country. If I had my choice, I wouldn't have had my grandfather spend the prime of his youth in war and the hospital. He hardly talks about it, but if he would, I'm sure that he'd say that it had to be done to preserve the quality of life that I am able to enjoy today.

As Rick pointed out, sometimes war is inevitable. And in these cases, I support the cause. But war can't always achieve peace (just look at Israel and Palestine...there will never be peace there). I don't have the answers to conflict, but I know how I feel about taking lives...I think it should be avoided whenever possible.

[d.max.atx]

JRod, my point here is not out about cowardice. I think that is an excellent quote. I do not think that war is always wrong. I don't fear for my own life (in fact, I look forward to going to heaven), I just believe that every person has the right to live. I do not have the authority to take a life. I'm not saying that Saddam or Bin Laden should be protected, but I am saying that there is someone in Afghanistan who, just like me, has a father and mother, brothers and sisters, and wants to have a family some day. The inalieable right of "LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" should be extended worlwide.