longboards at...target?

[BUboarder]

alright, i know that this is gonna be a subject that will erupt in some real strong feelings, but don't flame me just cause i had a thought...

the idea of getting longboarding more into the eye of the mainstream public has been bouncing around my head the last couple of days. (i just got an internship at target, and of course i'm already thinking ahead, thinkin "oh gee, once i get to be CEO of target, what fun things could i do??" haha).

in no way do i want to squeeze out the little shops that are the lifeblood of the sport right now, because their passion for quality, and the fact that they actually stand behind their product and think through what they sell before they sell it is incredibly important. you can't get that kind of service from a big box store, or for that matter even the smaller zumiez. but what if target or walmart or whatever your area's store like that got ahold of a contract with sector nine or another "entry-level" board company that could produce and distribute quality boards in larger quantities at a good price? do you guys think that would be something that would grow the sport in a positive way--introducing many more people to a multi-faceted activity that's fun, relaxing, and challenging all at once--at a level they can easily reach, and then can move up from? or do you think it would irreparably damage the sport because then we'd have way too many knuckleheads cruising around on boards not really knowing what they're doing...making the sport not special anymore because it would be too common?

i don't even know where i stand on this, because i think it would be cool stocking boards in a store where, arguably, almost everyone shops (zumiez is a bit off the beaten path for most, and a skateshop typically isn't going to attract someone in off the street unless they're already interested in skating) where the possibility exists that a customer could walk in for something completely unrelated, and walk out with a newfound love for longboarding...but on the other hand, it could definitely cheapen the sport and might even put some of the little shops we all love and depend on out of business and i don't want that at all

thoughts, opinions, outrage...put it all out on the table. this is a forum, let's discuss!

[Atra]

Longboards are simply not cheap enough for the average consumer. A longboard complete needs to be at least $100 for it to be viable in the mass consumer market. They can barely sell bikes and scooters at $100 for it to be even more viable it should be less.

[bucksaw87]

you'd have to do like kryptonics, schwinn, etc. and water down your product enough so they could make $50 on the final sale

[BUboarder]

Originally Posted by Atra

Longboards are simply not cheap enough for the average consumer. A longboard complete needs to be at least $100 for it to be viable in the mass consumer market. They can barely sell bikes and scooters at $100 for it to be even more viable it should be less.

well, i'd never pay $100 bucks for a scooter cause they're not worth it, but the reason they can't sell bikes at target for $100 bucks is that they're crappy bikes. a good bike is expensive, but that's what a bike shop is for. bikes are plenty popular too, and they are economically profitable. what i'm trying to get at is consumer accessibility and increased visibility to the general market, because you could indeed sell an s9 at target for the price they currently run, it's just a matter of getting it out there

[Derv]

lets see, 100 dollar board, no named random wheels, no named trucks, random bearing, flat deck, no graphic.

[BUboarder]

Originally Posted by dervishrider1

lets see, 100 dollar board, no named random wheels, no named trucks, random bearing, flat deck, no graphic.

so far you guys are missing the point. i don't want random crappy sh!t to sell people. i'm talking about target using their considerable corporate leverage to get s9/arbor away from zumiez and selling them the same way that store currently does. it's not like s9 makes terrible products--they're decent quality (certainly better than say krown or whatever) and they're a good entry board for someone looking to get into the sport in as painless a way they can. s9's are like a gateway drug you could say

[NJ Joe]

The biggest problem with selling longboards in big box stores is the fact that most longboards are handmade. Putting them in the public eye will increase demand, and manufacturers will end up sending sheets of maple through cut-and-lam machines, dropping quality and worksmanship in sacrifice to price and quantity. Its bad enough that sector 9 has gone pretty much mainstream. more expensive niche brands that we all ride will probably go belly up as people opt to buy cheap longboards at target for $49.99

[BUboarder]

Originally Posted by NJ Joe

The biggest problem with selling longboards in big box stores is the fact that most longboards are handmade. Putting them in the public eye will increase demand, and manufacturers will end up sending sheets of maple through cut-and-lam machines, dropping quality and worksmanship in sacrifice to price and quantity. Its bad enough that sector 9 has gone pretty much mainstream. more expensive niche brands that we all ride will probably go belly up as people opt to buy cheap longboards at target for $49.99

i'm certainly not going to go back down the food chain once i've gotten into the sport. it's like cars...you produce an entry level model, people get into a car for cheap, then move up a higher priced, higher quality model or brand once they have a little more money.

perhaps it would be a more interesting/heated discussion to ignore the argument about the ability or inability to sell a longboard at target. assume that they can offer a decent product at a decent price. whaddy'all think about what it would do for/to the sport?

[msk]

Originally Posted by BUboarder

but the reason they can't sell bikes at target for $100 bucks is that they're crappy bikes. a good bike is expensive, but that's what a bike shop is for.

Actually, those bikes fly out of the stores. When Mongoose was first put in Wal*Mart (albeit a heavily downgraded version of what Mongoose used to be), they sold more bikes that first year than they did through bike shops in the previous decade. As a shop mechanic, I spent almost half my time getting brand new "just bought last week at Target" bikes working, and got lots of shocked looks when I told the customer that getting it working properly (aka a standard tune-up) was going to cost about half of what the bike cost. The main reason people buy bikes from big box stores is that they feel bikes are "toys", and that no bike is worth any more than what Target or Wal*Mart charges.

bikes are plenty popular too, and they are economically profitable.

I'm guessing that you don't work in the bike industry... Bikes aren't profitable, especially the entry level (sub $500) models. Shops survive partially on high end sales (which are usually too few and far between), and mainly on service and accessories.

what i'm trying to get at is consumer accessibility and increased visibility to the general market, because you could indeed sell an s9 at target for the price they currently run, it's just a matter of getting it out there

If the bike market is any indication, people who would buy a skateboard at Target would consider it a toy, not worth the $100+ that an S9 would cost, especially with the $30 SpongeBob boards sitting right next to them...

[Barf]

If (IF!) Target, Walmart etc. wanted to start selling longboards, they would be able to move enough product to cut the costs of production way down by dealing in large volume. Current quality boards are built in very small volume, and that is a big part of why they cost so much. There's no reason the big retailers couldn't sell a quality entry-level product within the price range they'd have to hit.

Of course, there's also the possibility they'd opt for el-cheapo garbage at an even lower price if they thought they could make more profit that way. That's just how business goes.

Either way, I'm much more interested in BUboarder's take on the issue: If they did start selling longboards, what would be the effect on the sport, and would that be a good thing for us?

My take: They'd definitely be selling low-end goods; maybe "garbage", maybe "acceptable beginner level"; but they would not be selling the mid-level or high-end stuff. Those products would still be reserved for the sport and skate shops, just like with bikes. And just like with bikes, there would be manufacturers who dealt exclusively in the cheap stuff, and boutique manufacturers who stick to the high end.

They would undoubtedly bring more people to the sport- more kid & clueless n00bs, but also more converts to the Church Of Stoke. The kids would get hurt and the n00bs would be annoying. But the Converts would join our ranks, and there would be more people to skate with. And some of the kids & n00bs would grow up and become converts too. And more converts = more people buying quality gear. More people buying quality gear than we have now = more demand = more $$ for R&D and more manufacturers building the goods.

OTOH, more people and more media means that the sport become more mainstream. If you like the fact that we're doing something "different", that would start to go away as the sport grows. People would not stop and point at your board, or ask you why it's so big, or whatever. You'd just be another skater- people would probably stop differentiating between longboarders and skaters.. who really differentiates between inliners and quadskaters anymore? They're all just rollerskaters these days, whichever type of skates they use. People that are actually into rollerskating care about the difference, but outsiders really don't. Same thing could eventually happen with longboarding if it continues to gain popularity and exposure. (This holds true even without the Target thing- the sport's already growing.)

So, how would we feel about that kind of trade-off? More skate buddies, more & better gear from more manufacturers, but we lose a lot of our uniqueness? Would you still like being a longboarder if it didn't make you feel like you were part of a "secret club" anymore?

[Steve Ignorant]

Academy stocks incredibly s­hitty skateboards with very small tails, horrible bearings, and sketchy trucks. Lots of kids buy them. It's call turning a profit, and no company will ever stock something with less net gain than another because the former is better quality. It's just money, nothing more, nothing less. Skateboards in general just don't belong in stores like this, because it discourages people who could be potentially interested in the idea of a skateboard because the product is cheaply made, and ineffective at what it's meant to do.

[BUboarder]

Originally Posted by msk

As a shop mechanic, I spent almost half my time getting brand new "just bought last week at Target" bikes working, and got lots of shocked looks when I told the customer that getting it working properly (aka a standard tune-up) was going to cost about half of what the bike cost...

haha, that's pretty funny. i know enough about bikes and how they work to see that coming

Originally Posted by msk

...I'm guessing that you don't work in the bike industry... Bikes aren't profitable, especially the entry level (sub $500) models. Shops survive partially on high end sales (which are usually too few and far between), and mainly on service and accessories...

yeah, i sort of misspoke there. what i meant is the industry is profitable, due to what you said with the add-ons. you're right, i don't work in the bike industry, but i understand enough about the economics side of a business to understand what you're sayin

Originally Posted by msk

...If the bike market is any indication, people who would buy a skateboard at Target would consider it a toy, not worth the $100+ that an S9 would cost, especially with the $30 SpongeBob boards sitting right next to them...

that's probably true, which is pretty sad. that's an unfortunate part of what chains do to products, i.e. your example with mongoose, which used to be a pretty decent company (like schwinn...RIP homegrown) but is a pathetic shadow of its former self.

p.s. ick spongeboob god forbid that he ever ends up on a longboard

[jmasta]

Originally Posted by Barf

If (IF!) Target, Walmart etc. wanted to start selling longboards, they would be able to move enough product to cut the costs of production way down by dealing in large volume. Current quality boards are built in very small volume, and that is a big part of why they cost so much. There's no reason the big retailers couldn't sell a quality entry-level product within the price range they'd have to hit.

Of course, there's also the possibility they'd opt for el-cheapo garbage at an even lower price if they thought they could make more profit that way. That's just how business goes.
....

hate to bust your bubble, bur walmart ALREADY does sell cheap ass longboards

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=5692941

$69.98

this POS is definition "el-cheapo garbage".... at less than $70 you can bet walmart cut every corner they could and paid the 8 year olds who made it next to nothing. there is nothing quality about this

[BUboarder]

Originally Posted by Barf

...Either way, I'm much more interested in BUboarder's take on the issue: If they did start selling longboards, what would be the effect on the sport, and would that be a good thing for us?...

THERE we go! this is what i was hoping for this thread to become. thanks for sharing your insight! i love how complex the issue is...it's not cut-and-dry good or bad one way or the other, and for a student of business (me) and a stoked longboarder (also me) it's really a fascinating issue

[BoMbHiLlS92]

There is pros and cons to this topic. S9 in my opinion is a good board for a good price. Dont get me wrong im not saying S9 is comparble to landyachtz or loaded im saying they are good boards for the money you invest in them. If target where to sell these boards they would be cheaper, but they would also attract alot of people meaning little smaller companies woudl have to fid a new way to compete, they would sacrfice quaity for quanity. Then the longboards we know and love today will never be as good.

[bucksaw87]

Originally Posted by BoMbHiLlS92

There is pros and cons to this topic. S9 in my opinion is a good board for a good price. Dont get me wrong im not saying S9 is comparble to landyachtz or loaded im saying they are good boards for the money you invest in them. If target where to sell these boards they would be cheaper, but they would also attract alot of people meaning little smaller companies woudl have to fid a new way to compete, they would sacrfice quaity for quanity. Then the longboards we know and love today will never be as good.

whoa, whoa, whoa...who ever said ANYTHING about s9 in this thread?

MSK nailed it with his bike analogy, straight up. whether or not the brand is landy, s9, wefunk, krown, or slave-labor produced maple plank, the ONLY way we're gonna see longboards in target is with a tremendous explosion in popularity (the way x-games and THPS did for skateboarding), and a severe cut in quality.

in keeping with the biking analogy, selling bikes at target is by NO means detrimental to the bike "scene." it introduces young kids to biking (my first bike was from target), and hooks them for life. if there's a need, they step into the bike shop and buy a higher-end machine. if there's not a need, they'll run their target bike to the ground. i'm sure i'm a "poser" by someone's standards in mountainbiking, seen as i'm riding a nearly-stock gary fisher...i'm not good enough to handle extreme terrain, but i can hold my own...but that doesn't mean i'm bad for mtb'ing, does it?

[leadfoot]

There is a cheap ass "No Fear" brand Pintail at our K-Marts in Oz that are $65 bucks.
The trucks look crap like those on the $30 skateboards. No concave of course.
Sorry, couldnt find pics.

[Shorty McSmalls]

I think Target has a unique market unto itself. They are increasingly trying to be a more "hip" name through their marketing and product contracts (Converse, Mossimo, Michael Graves, etc. . .). Unfortunately, they are lagging in areas like extreme sports (X Games). With people like yourself interning, might have the opportunity to bring up longboarding with someone corporate. Ascertaining a contract with a company that mass produces like Sector 9 or Arbor isn't far-fetched. It may not look good next to the SpongeBob boards, but put it on an endcap and put a big price on it and it will sell. Target sponsors Shaun White so I could eventually see Target trying to tap into the market of longboarding eventually. So, why not while your there get them on the right path. It will definitely get the sport exposure, and well I am not sure that exposure is something I'm looking forward too, but I am used to adapting with change. Skating is just too much fun for me.

[BoMbHiLlS92]

Originally Posted by bucksaw87

whoa, whoa, whoa...who ever said ANYTHING about s9 in this thread?

MSK nailed it with his bike analogy, straight up. whether or not the brand is landy, s9, wefunk, krown, or slave-labor produced maple plank, the ONLY way we're gonna see longboards in target is with a tremendous explosion in popularity (the way x-games and THPS did for skateboarding), and a severe cut in quality.

in keeping with the biking analogy, selling bikes at target is by NO means detrimental to the bike "scene." it introduces young kids to biking (my first bike was from target), and hooks them for life. if there's a need, they step into the bike shop and buy a higher-end machine. if there's not a need, they'll run their target bike to the ground. i'm sure i'm a "poser" by someone's standards in mountainbiking, seen as i'm riding a nearly-stock gary fisher...i'm not good enough to handle extreme terrain, but i can hold my own...but that doesn't mean i'm bad for mtb'ing, does it?

Thats a good point

[BUboarder]

Originally Posted by bucksaw87

whoa, whoa, whoa...who ever said ANYTHING about s9 in this thread?

haha, i did...

Originally Posted by bucksaw87

...in keeping with the biking analogy, selling bikes at target is by NO means detrimental to the bike "scene." it introduces young kids to biking (my first bike was from target), and hooks them for life. if there's a need, they step into the bike shop and buy a higher-end machine. if there's not a need, they'll run their target bike to the ground. i'm sure i'm a "poser" by someone's standards in mountainbiking, seen as i'm riding a nearly-stock gary fisher...i'm not good enough to handle extreme terrain, but i can hold my own...but that doesn't mean i'm bad for mtb'ing, does it?

i completely agree with what you're saying here. before i got the high-end mountain bike i have now, i had four or five inexpensive bikes from target or wherever. it's a great way to get a kid into biking, seeing as most of us don't have the skills to take advantage of better components when we're young. and sure, some people are fine just getting another cheap bike and running it into the ground again after their first one bites the dust, but far more people realize that they really love what they're doing and need better (even if only slightly) equipment to really grow their skills and explore their own limits. i wouldn't call you a poser mtbiker riding a gary fisher. they make a good product. they're actually a sister company to my own ride, Trek, and they're a well-respected name in the bike world. i'm not great either, but i'm hard on my bike (and my body, haha) so i stepped up to something that would survive with me.

the exact same things can be said about a longboarding: get 'em into it,

Originally Posted by bucksaw87

...[introduce] young kids to [the sport] and [hook] them for life. if there's a need, they step into the [skate] shop and buy a higher-end machine. if there's not a need, they'll run their target [longboard] to the ground