The Next Evolution of Racing?

[nokeboarder]

great article justin, my long term goal is to do some races, it sounds like a lot of fun being around people who love longbaording so much

[tomahawk]

It's a perfect example.

wow, apaprently you fail to see the significance of the phrase "isolated example". the term isolated means that it is different than the norm, ie all the other races i cited. and even then, people are still riding it you idiot. do you live there?? do you dh that hill?? then you dont know jack about how "blown up" or not the spot is.

Good then keep them there. Just make sure that in your smugness you exclude ski areas and other limited access roads from your list. We don't need people like you hyping them and therefore ruining them just to satisfy your demented ego.

???? i've been to freerides held on access roads for ski resorts. it was ####### epic and the town loved us. spot not blown out at all! besides that, the rest of that statement is nonsensical.

Good for you. Why don't you move to France then.

i like california, and currently am stuck here for at least 4-5 yrs more. after that, who knows.

Speak for yourself. Why should I enjoy out-of-towners riding my local spots? The only good outlaws are those that aren't advertised. Advertising and crowds bring unwanted attention from the police.

Skating is an individual activity or something that is fun with a small group of friends. Crowds suck.

ok, a good outlaw is an outlaw that brings lots of really good people together to race. anything else is exactly the same as a regular sesh with ur buddies with some cash thrown in. and i dont know about you (still dunno if you actually skate), but i learn a lot from skating with new ppl. and if you don't enjoy out of towners, it's ur prerogative not to invite them. i'm just saying dont make generalizations about the rest of the world based on your grouchy ass viewpoint and hatred for all things human. not everyone is like you, maybe once you accept that you'll understand so much more of what myself and others have written.

not to mention that you completely skipped the main point of my argument: THAT PRETTY MUCH ALL RACE ROADS ARE NOT ROADS YOU RIDE MOST OF THE TIME SO THEREFORE WHO GIVES A #### IF THEYRE BLOWN OUT YOU IDIOT!! YOURE NOT SKATING THEM ANYWAYS (this is assuming your dumb ass is even local to any of these race roads)

once again: just because YOU dont like people, YOU dont like sharing your roads, doesnt mean that everyone else has the same mindset. oh, and learn how to argue coherently

[roflsore]

The hill that must not be named is far from blown out. In fact, on the gate in the middle, there is only a chain holding it together, no padlock. Regardless, it took me and my buddies about a minute to get it off.

[Xgecko]

While racing is cool I think freeriding is what is going to bring the sport along to acceptance. More people are can freeride a hill than can tuck and hold the fastest line.it's also a great place for people to learn to go fast is a safer more controlled environment. I wish organized freerides were more common here in the States

[dirtyhippy]

yawn... skate drama... actually wait "dh" drama. even more lame.

[Cranks]

"you all know who you are, you who thought two boards was a significant sponsorship from a major board manufacturer"

i would personally like to see a lot more companies stepping up and throwing down cash. it costs 400 dollars to rent portable toilets for a day, surely a company can find that much money in the budget. Another company can throw down another 400 for the ambo. where are the shoe companies??? we all wear their shoes, and they sponsor massive short skate jams, but why won't they throw down comparative pennies for a longboard race?

as for paskapoo, mistakes were made all over the place, but they put on a kick ass race with massive prize money. finding sponsors is hard, putting on races is hard and expensive, and months and months of work. give the SLAC the respect they deserve.

maryhill is a bad example, EC, and you know it. not many other roads are administered by a museum, and obviously museum board members are the biggest nimby's around. Racing is GOOD for the sport, because it draws more people in. do you think its a coincidence that there are several races in BC, and tons of world class riders coming out of small towns there? they encourage community. Races don't heat out roads. people free riding heats out roads. ftr is what drew heat to maryhill, not the festival of speed. no-body gets run over by a car during races.

[SteveC]

where are the shoe companies??? we all wear their shoes, and they sponsor massive short skate jams, but why won't they throw down comparative pennies for a longboard race?

X2
god knows we munch through their shoes fast enough. It's the most expensive part of my habit.

[GPymp]

I said this before.

Start a membership drive. And with those monies hire a professional sales person to sale DH and or slalom to the media (MTV, Fuel TV, LOGO anyone), shoe whore's, energy drink pushers etc. That person(s) does nothing but sell the sport to people who will give the sport(s) some money and media time. And they spend the time from October until April/May doing just that.
There are now snowboard companies who are making/selling skateboards now. There are billions made in clothing for the skater culture too.
Simply there isn't anyone knocking on the skating/clothing/soft drink/media's door and asking how we can get there help.

Its just a idea. Maybe someone with brains has a better idea.

[EBasil]

"you all know who you are, you who thought two boards was a significant sponsorship from a major board manufacturer"

i would personally like to see a lot more companies stepping up and throwing down cash. it costs 400 dollars to rent portable toilets for a day, surely a company can find that much money in the budget. Another company can throw down another 400 for the ambo.

Personally, I was waiting for someone to pick up on that. Tjhat's the curse of the Outlaw: we're stoked to get a deck or two, maybe a set of wheels, some bushings, some stickers... and our mfgrs and shops get it in their heads that they're never going to give cash, step up to fund a race on the front end, etc... Of course there are exceptions to the generalization, but this is very real.

There is a flip side to all that, and GPymp touched on a little of it.
Sponsorship needs exposure to make it truly worthwhile, and many events just focus on the bros already in the race. To be fair to the sponsor, events must advertise as far beyond the population of those registered to participate as possible. Maryhill Festival of Speed is an example of an event that has had marketing and sponsorship efforts going on for over a year before the '08 event will take place -- and it still doesn't have a "RedBull" or other such corporate sponsor, even though we nailed down the NBC coverage! Heck, sponsors within the industry, with VERY few exceptions, don't even want to buck up to support it and get their exposure on TV. However, local companies unrelated to skateboarding are involved and supportive. PERHAPS, if the right people can build on what occurs this Fall, others will be able to attract third-party sponsorship for skate events -- like in the good way old days.

Hey bro, we'll give you some product to hand out for us. Put our name on the banner and make sure everyone thanks us.

[RastamanD]

this sucks. I hope the CA Outlaw series lives on. I want to attend some of the races sometime. we need more slide/freeride/race Events.

I want to start something in Fresno/central valley.

[Lit]

actually we dont care about the swag..we get that if we want it anyway.
our outlaws rock..i dont see them ever going away..
but Maryhill will be gigantor.
and congrats on getting nbc on board. what are they kicking into the purse?
i know Chaputs putting in thousands again.
how much is igsa putting into the prize purse? i know its a mandatory 250bucks for 1 day of actual racing so theres alotta money flying around..not that i'll see any of it but the boys deserve a slice..
and what are you talking about Georges, stepping up to the line is when it starts to get fun

[Cranks]

Personally, I was waiting for someone to pick up on that. Tjhat's the curse of the Outlaw: we're stoked to get a deck or two, maybe a set of wheels, some bushings, some stickers... and our mfgrs and shops get it in their heads that they're never going to give cash, step up to fund a race on the front end, etc... Of course there are exceptions to the generalization, but this is very real.

There is a flip side to all that, and GPymp touched on a little of it.
Sponsorship needs exposure to make it truly worthwhile, and many events just focus on the bros already in the race. To be fair to the sponsor, events must advertise as far beyond the population of those registered to participate as possible. Maryhill Festival of Speed is an example of an event that has had marketing and sponsorship efforts going on for over a year before the '08 event will take place -- and it still doesn't have a "RedBull" or other such corporate sponsor, even though we nailed down the NBC coverage! Heck, sponsors within the industry, with VERY few exceptions, don't even want to buck up to support it and get their exposure on TV. However, local companies unrelated to skateboarding are involved and supportive. PERHAPS, if the right people can build on what occurs this Fall, others will be able to attract third-party sponsorship for skate events -- like in the good way old days.

Hey bro, we'll give you some product to hand out for us. Put our name on the banner and make sure everyone thanks us.

i think it would be sick for an organisation to come about that manages money and publicity and shares proceeds around, if theres a wildly successful event that is making money, it can help support up and coming races in the most productive way. remember my sf advertising shitfest thread? maybe thats where you guys should put the millions of dollars you are making from this site!

I don't really get it, back in the day wasn't it the shops and companies that rallied the ragtag surfers into teams and brought about the whole competitive side of it? if lords of dogtown was accurate at least, i dont really know my history.

the other elephant in the room that no-one has mentioned is the harsh reality is that its damn hard to get a good turnout at an event. i help run a club at the university and of the 150+ people on our official roster, the most we have ever had at a mass cruise/bbq is like 30, and at a bombing session, like 15. 10% seems to be the norm. a lot of places cant just muster 40 or 50 guys for an outlaw, without serious prize money drawing people in from farther afield.

[EBasil]

There it is: since we'll race outlaws even with NO Schwag, just for the skate of it... even less incentive to sponsor. Outlaws and big promotion don't really mix, for the most part anyway. So, when is the last outlaw anyone can point to where sponsors gave cash to the organizers to pay for the event? Now, that's steppin' up!

Maryhill is $250 for FIVE days on the hill, and the hill is there for five days whether each racer chooses to use it, or not. The trucks, insurance and fees don't go down based on head count. There is a lot of money floating around though: Chaput's got $5g's just in the Speedboard podium and Never Summer has TQ $ for each speedboard class, ie open, women, jrs... The other classes all get cashola, too, just not as much as the skateboarders and none of it comes from the media. The stark reality is that speedboarding, and speedboarders, haven't been attractive to television media for the last few years and it's been a huge endeavor and expense to get the coverage committment. If it goes well for MFOS, maybe things will be different next year(s).

[403]

... a lot of places cant just muster 40 or 50 guys for an outlaw, without serious prize money drawing people in from farther afield.

I'm wondering why it takes prize money to draw people to races? Or does it?
I'd be happy just racing, I don't need to take home money to make it worthwhile for me to travel and attend. Even small 5 person outlaws seem to involve entry fees and payouts. This isn't the PGA tour.
I know it costs money to stage a race, thats what entry fees can cover.
I've done other amateur sports and it never involved prize money and that was fine. We did it because we loved it.

[EBasil]

i think it would be sick for an organisation to come about that manages money and publicity and shares proceeds around, if theres a wildly successful event that is making money, it can help support up and coming races in the most productive way.

I think that's a great plan, and that it should start right after this mythical event that makes mad money takes place. We've read about Paskapoo earning a massive deficit, many know that IGSA's Calif DH Series ran at a loss (ie the volunteers PAID to put on a race for racers and sponsors) and as far as I know Bricin Lyons and John Ozman have been hiding the giant piles of cash leftover after their Danger Bay and Maryhill events. Heck, from what I hear, Joe Lehm isn't putting on races anymore because he's made so much money that his time is consumed with portfolio management and golf. Hey, I bet he's with the S9 guys on the links, right now! I think the DHB made about ten thousand cash, each, right? Uh, yeah. Alright, the Big Corporate guys may be raking in fat piles of cash, but I'm pretty sure none of it's filtered down to create a profitable race series anywhere.

remember my sf advertising shitfest thread? maybe thats where you guys should put the millions of dollars you are making from this site!

Indeed, although I don't remember your thread. I can tell you that Silverfish invested more than its net income into supporting racing and events all over North America for more than two years. A lot of events got noticed, were bigger and "happened" because of it, and you can probably think of a few. I think we walked the talk even if it wasn't enough to convince sponsors and organizers to do the same.

[tomahawk]

for me the biggest hurdle to more sponsors and more sustainable growth isnt media coverage or sponsors. it's the fact that to practice our sport we must do inherently illegal activities.

we have no place to practice this legally (except at races), we have no facilities dedicated to just dh. How many non-skate companies are gonna be willing to sponsor a guy that goes and gets arrested by the cops or ticketed? I don't see this sport growing beyond underground events, or recieving sustained coverage from the media (ie not boom and bust) unless we can get some kind of recognition.

and let's face it, while we all believe we're safer than bikers, we wear leathers, fullfaces etc, we can argue about how well we actually can brake, be it footbraking or sliding. But at the end of the day, we are on something with NO easily activated brakes (ie someone who has never done this before can hop on a board and go down a hill without dying. On a bike, this can be done), and we are NOT legal on the roads. And let's face it, we all can be as safe and skilled as we want, but all it really takes is a few kids to #### themselves up on a "super fast longboard" and we're back to square one.

The first step to sustained growth should be (somehow) to change the driving code in each state to make skaters in the same category as bikes and not as pedestrians. Or, if that is not possible, somehow get dedicated practice facilities, ie a random closed road that we can legally skate and practice on. until this sport gets legit, it's not going anywhere past underground/boom-bust cycles imho.

but in the meantime, i'm enjoying being an outlaw rebel skater dude. it makes me feel badass (too bad the type of chicks i hang out with dont really dig that). but i cant wait till i have a real job. i wanna sponsor/fund events on my own lol.

[animal]

until this sport gets legit, it's not going anywhere past underground/boom-bust cycles imho.

true.

. if anything i expect skaters to receive much more painful forms of punishment for skating roads especially with the recent trend of longboarders getting killed due to their inability to wear brain buckets and the disrespect that vehicles have for said skaters

[Lit]

There it is: since we'll race outlaws even with NO Schwag, just for the skate of it... even less incentive to sponsor. Outlaws and big promotion don't really mix, for the most part anyway. So, when is the last outlaw anyone can point to where sponsors gave cash to the organizers to pay for the event?

the outlaw organizers dont need sponsor money for a race. its paid by the racers entry fee. and there's still money for the prize purse..

Maryhill is $250 for FIVE days on the hill, and the hill is there for five days whether each racer chooses to use it, or not. The trucks, insurance and fees don't go down based on head count.

the 5 days is just to justify the 250 entry fee.. 3 is plenty, 1 for practice, 1 for qualifying and race day..
and at 250 a pop there's plenty left over to kick some back into the purse, i dont expect bobs brother to do it for free, but the greed reeks..severiously

The stark reality is that speedboarding, and speedboarders, haven't been attractive to television media for the last few years and it's been a huge endeavor and expense to get the coverage committment. If it goes well for MFOS, maybe things will be different next year(s).

well if they're sending a skeleton crew for a 5 minute spot on the 11 o'clock news, then i can see why they wouldnt pay. But if they're sending a full production crew and plan to broadcast a sk8board race across the nation or worldwide, they are paying something substantial..and it's sad that it wont trickle down to the racers. the pie is pretty big and the racers shouldn't get bent over the couch..

[EBasil]

the outlaw organizers dont need sponsor money for a race. its paid by the racers entry fee. and there's still money for the prize purse..

Yep. That's exactly why we can put on outlaws w/o major sponsorship or insurance. I can think of a few outlaws you've been at where the event would have cost the organizers money if sponsors hadn't supported it, though and I can also think of a few outlaws that have been shut down by the police. Man, that sucks, but it's part of the deal.

Regarding Maryhill, I am kindof surprised to see you posting the party line from some bitter haters that either went last year and know better or didn't go, are ignorant and just spout hate because they suck.

the 5 days is just to justify the 250 entry fee.. 3 is plenty, 1 for practice, 1 for qualifying and race day..
and at 250 a pop there's plenty left over to kick some back into the purse, i dont expect bobs brother to do it for free, but the greed reeks..severiously

Okay, let's deconstruct this:

--On what do you base the claim that the event has been lengthened to justify a particular entry fee? How many days on the hill was the event, last year?

--How much is the Museum charging for the hill? How much is the insurance, hay, trucks, staff, toilets, food, music, banners, tents, signs, campground supplies and t-shirts costing? Do they cost less if someone decides to come only for the IGSA race instead of the freeriding days?

--If you don't know what these things cost, how do you know there's "plenty leftover"?

--On what do you base the claim that major funding isn't trickling down to the skaters? Why would you post a claim, rather than a question, unless the point was to hate instead of skate?

--How much do you allow John Ozman to make in exchange for a year's work on an event for us? Why do you refer to him as "Bob's brother" unless you're now spouting the pissant gripes that you've held yourself above in the past? Of all people, Lit, wtf are you falling for that crap for?

--If you can't lay out the numbers, why would you accuse a race organizer of "reeking greed" when he's busting ass to put on a big event and make you as famous as Saturday afternoon TV can do?

well if they're sending a skeleton crew for a 5 minute spot on the 11 o'clock news, then i can see why they wouldnt pay. But if they're sending a full production crew and plan to broadcast a sk8board race across the nation or worldwide, they are paying something substantial..and it's sad that it wont trickle down to the racers. the pie is pretty big and the racers shouldn't get bent over the couch..

Amazing. Tell us all how much NBC is paying to film MFOS and then run it as an hour show ("Jeep World of Adventure Sports"). The actual amount has been published right here on Silverfish, so let us all know how much $$$$ that bastard John Ozman is going to pocket for allowing NBC's crews on the hill. I will admit something for you: I get HALF of the take and I will give 100% of it to anyone and everyone that has the balls to reprint how much it is. That's right, 50% value to as many people as post it. (Could be millions, if the conspiracy theorists are right!)

Finally, take a quick breeze through the event information and tell us all how the "racers are getting bent over the couch" in an event that pays actual cash after you get to skate 5 days with # of runs limited only by time (some did almost 50 runs last year), free camping, free food, free schwag (free to participants, but courtesy of that money-grubbing whore Ozman) free live music concerts and more.

I think you've been unfair & malicious with conspiracy hater crap like that, and I'm totally bummed to see someone like you spouting it. There are plenty of race organizers that will point to exactly THIS kind of stuff as THE reason they aren't putting on events. You know some of them. Others are listed in Justin's article. What a bummer that one of the primary reasons there are less skate events this year than last is that skaters crapped in their own nest, over and over.

[Liam Fourie]

Ok.. once again i am bummed to see another good event going under? Whilst in france recently i was listening to KOma the organiser of Peyragudes W.C and he said that he is more concerned about putting on a good event than giving out huge cash prizes.. i think as the first (and frankly the most relevant) post. Too much focus was made on cash prizes!? Winning a race is not about money.. so next time if the prize money is not available then maybe people should have swallowed their pride and just announce this to the riders,i for one would understand.. respect for putting it on but cover your bases first,the rest will follow.. some of the most succfessfull races i have been to had little or no prize money.