Forms and Bags

[ol'dude]

I was just wandering through a manu site that was claiming greatness because their boards were shaped with neither heat nor moisture... they claim a six-hour vacuum process.

Geezer, in your first registered post (http://www.silverfish.cc/forum/viewt...highlight=#570) you mentioned using a form and vacuum bag to shape a deck.
My is;
is this a sandwich form, or merely one side? Which side? Where do you get the foam? How hard is it to shape? Can you use a "shopvac" system (like yours), or does this require the mechanical version of a Keno Girl (movie reference; you figure it out)?
Basically, I'm wondering if the average human can pull this off, or if it takes so much dedicated equipment that I'd need to go to work at the nearest windsurf shop to learn...

[mauiskategeezer]

That's pretty much what I do with my boards to laminate them.
The form is just the basic shape of the boards bottom, and of course it's tha same on top when layers of laminate are applied.
You can buy a vac pump , expensive... or just salvage the pump from an old frig or AC unit.

The foam is easy to sand into shape. It's the blue or pink extruded foam found in building supply stores like Home Depot. Comes in one or two inch thickness in a 4'x8' sheet. About $20 per.

[the monk]

(http://www.silverfish.cc/forum/viewt...highlight=#570).....GEEZER MAN!!! this is what I was talkin about when I asked, "how to glass?". I knew you had it in ya! KUDOS!!!

[longboardbuddha]

this is how lush laminate their ply decks...they have a bag big enough for a man to get in...but i digress....the other week i saw in the local wood store some ready made foam sandwich with birch-foam-birch about an inch thick and me being me i pulled a sheet of it out and bounced up and down on it..real good!!!might get a sheet

[ol'dude]

about an inch thick

Guess that'll work for some lighter 7-footers, eh?

[longboardbuddha]

all the better when you have to run up stairs to escape da cops

[ol'dude]

So, if there is no heat or moisture to soften up the wood, and it is purely the "one-ton-press" action of the vac-bag, do you have to keep running the pump? Or just re-suck every few hours? Is there a high chance of cracking, or is it a such a slow process that squeazes the little fibers millimeter by millimeter? And in that case, how long does it normally take to get a deck formed to the point it won't return to flat?

[ol'dude]

Part II of that...

Do you have to build the layers yourself in this system, or can you use cabinet-grade?

Class? Bueler?

[mauiskategeezer]

OK sit back and hear this...

I can't imagine a vac press that just forms a board. It has to be "maleable" first. That can happen two ways.
By infusing water into an exsisting laminate
By building up the layers in the laminate

We've done the first part... lots of us here on Silverfish anyway. You just did one... wet it, clamp it, shape it, outfit it, ride it.

The other way is what the first Holomama Proto was, only I used verneer which is at best .060", with alternate layers of carbon and 4 oz S-glass. I also alternated the grain in each laminate.
The thing came out real flexy, even with concave and camber. But, it had a nice constant flex. In other words, it would bend at the same rate of resistance for a good portion of it's performance envelope. The spring rate was constant to a certain point then the resistance rose gradually.

It rocked! But it was too noodly for a 52" deck so I shortened it into the Hotrod proto. At 28.5" wheel base, it is puuuurfect. It pumps sooo easy. My friend Ryan rode it and he had this big grin on his face saying ... "I luuuuuv this board! I had it setup with R-II's and Classic K 76mm wheels.


So you're thinking, ok I'll just laminate some wood.
well...

I can't seem find a supplier that will just sell ready to lam 1/16" maple, birch etc. I think it's going to have to be a job that I actually do in a mill. By a slab of maple and turn it into 1/16th wood.

So there ya go. That's how far I've gone with the process. See what you can do.. experiment.

This is your mission...
If you are caught, secretary will disavow any knowledge of your actions.

Good luck Dude

[longboardbuddha]

if you cant get to a fridge pump get hold of an old nikki carb or solex and you run water through the fuel intake and a hose through the air inlet wid some airtight plating with a hose connection attached to the bag....turn on the tap and the venturi principle sucks air from the bag to create vacuum...spread some j cloth around inside the bag so you dont get no air pockets and a good vacuum...i can press up to three decks in this method its cheap to run and i cycle the water via bucket but its messy and cold in winter farting around with water.......i do 5x3plys ( to give 15mm birch) over a mold and it sucks like madness for good cave and camber and takes 3 hours before i can take the decks out...no soaking no heat

[ol'dude]

That's da schitt I wanted to hear! :thumb:
Big thumbs up to both of you. Now I know that forms take layers, and the plywood gets the Inquisition.

[Rickabilly]

I started a new semester today, in which i am taking a woodworking class. You can not imagine the gleam in my eye when i found that i now have access to a VACUUM PRESS!!! I only have a couple free workshop periods and i know most of them will be filed with other work, but after disscussing it with the prof, he will allow me to press a board as long as a show up the five or so hours later to finnish the job. Im so stoked.

[longboardbuddha]

for all those who bag up in cold climates a little advice...drape the bag with an electric blanket when its cold and hasten glue cure times...also i've started building hollow moulds which lessens the effects of any leaks you might have.....plus if you're using dry veneers prime the surfaces first with 1 part pva 1 part water before glueing...er thats it for now