Basic Principles of Lamination

[THOR-ONE]

alright guys, i decided to take the initiative to make a skicky about basic lamination techniques. Please add to this, it will only make it easyier for all of us.

fristly
lam�i�na�tion ( P ) Dictionary.com (lm-nshn)
n.

The act or process of laminating.
The state of being laminated.
Something laminated.
A lamina.


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Source: The American Heritage� Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright � 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


Main Entry: lam�i�na�tion
Pronunciation: "lam-&-'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
: a laminated structure or arrangement


Source: Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, � 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.


lamination

n 1: a layered structure 2: bonding thin sheets together


I find that with the piss poor budget that most of us here have there are two basic deck laminating styles: with a clamping jig of some sort, or with vacuum pressing. both have there good and bad features, and can be used to achieve different things.

Clamping: either through a nicely designed press ( toothless is a wicked example big ups dude! Toothless: Longboard Construction: The Instructions , also check out the basic press!), or through a few pieces of wood neatly (or not, this is a wicke example of a super simple press to make a killer board by jmclure ) put togther, the wood is glued up and clamped in a jig untill the glue or resin bonding it sets.

Vacuum: just check out www.roarockit.com , pretty wicked stuff. the basic idea is the wood is glued up placed on a shaped foam mould, and placed in a vacuum bag, or foil or whatever, the atmospheric preasure you create when pulling out the air clamps the deck to the mould. roarockit has a pretty good video on there site for making a mould.

Wood: if you ask people here what is teh cheapest and best wood to get to make a deck they would probably tell you baltic birch. you can get it a number of thicknesses (1/16"-3/4" i haven't seen thicker, but there might be) and it is usually void free. it might be a little hard to find, but its worth looking for. the thinner sheets are great for pressing (in either vacuum or jig).

maple veneers are the preffered wood for skateboard companys. roarockit (see html above) sells wicked maple veneers, shaped and uncut for probably the lowest cost you can get it for and an amazing quality (99% knot free)

FEEL FREE TO EXPERIMENT!! use what ever you fell like to make a deck, you might find something pretty cool in the process.

I don't know too much about V-lam so if someone wants to tackle that go for it.

if i missed anything please feel free to add.

-THOR[/code]

[chaindog]

THANKS
even though i hate sticky posts

[shapeshifter]

oh yeah...

...but did you know that leonardo da vinci was laminating fibers in plastic?

[Directive0]

THANKS
even though i hate sticky posts

WHY?!!!?!?!!

[longcranny_bifster606]

would titebond 3 glue work? or do i have to use epoxy?

[Loki440]

would titebond 3 glue work? or do i have to use epoxy?

Yes, the two most common adhesives that you will find people use on here are Titebond III and epoxy

[100% Proof]

What should be the proper lamination period using Titebond II and a simple press with jigs?


anyone? anyone? anyone?

[100% Proof]

Well I guess Im on my own to figure it out, I left it in the jig for 72hours and came out with a nice kicktail.

[THOR-ONE]

sorry dude, didin't notice the posts.


i think 24 hours is long enough, but you want you remember that PVA (wood glues) are water based, thus trapping water in the deck. so give it some time to dry out before you put any sealling coats on it (i say 3-5 days).

good luck

[100% Proof]

sorry dude, didin't notice the posts.


i think 24 hours is long enough, but you want you remember that PVA (wood glues) are water based, thus trapping water in the deck. so give it some time to dry out before you put any sealling coats on it (i say 3-5 days).

good luck

Good look, Thor. Do you mind if I call you that? There is no need to apologise. Experience is key. You say 3-5 days? I am not sure if I have the patience. Thank you for the tip though.

[CrisVA]

Well I guess Im on my own to figure it out, I left it in the jig for 72hours and came out with a nice kicktail.

If there is something like a kick you really need to leave it in the press longer. I find that even though some of the concave relaxes, depending on the glue you use kicks will REALLY flatten out of not left in the press over a day. I usually leave my boards in for 24 hours (Although I have pushed it to 12 hours before and they turned out fine) and board with a kick get left in 36 or 48 hours.

[karl]

I use "foaming" polyurethane woodglue,settles in 6 hours at room temperature,double kick,concave and camber

[Wave-less living]

Hey Guys

If ypur using a jig press, polyurethane glue works really well

dont use it in a vacuum bag though, because it foams out

Peace

[noclue87]

i know this is super late but i figured this was the place to ask... i'm gonna make a board with concave but i don't have any idea how much more i need to make the curve in my jig in order to get the desired results. I was talking to a friend about it and he said humidity was maybe a factor... Is this a lagitamate statement? Also is there like a general ratio that people go by to compensate for the "bounce back" after you take it out of the jig or is it just trail and error?

[legendary]

i know this is super late but i figured this was the place to ask... i'm gonna make a board with concave but i don't have any idea how much more i need to make the curve in my jig in order to get the desired results. I was talking to a friend about it and he said humidity was maybe a factor... Is this a lagitamate statement? Also is there like a general ratio that people go by to compensate for the "bounce back" after you take it out of the jig or is it just trail and error?

If you are using less th8)an 1/2" of concave with 1/8" Baltic Birch, you won't have to worry much about spring back as long as your glue is set before you remove it from the press. The glue holds the shape if pressed properly.

[e-j-allen]

yep ill second the poly-urathane foaming glue but try not to get it on ur skin u have to sand it off lol
and does any one know if u can get both chamber ad concave using a clamped jig
and wat angle wud u recomend for a kick-tail

[06metzp]

Not sure if this should go here or in the fiberglassing thread, but here's a question for you all:

If I'm building a board with two layers of BB ply, and I want to put a layer of fiberglass between the two pieces of wood, will the fiberglass/resin/epoxy be sufficient to bond the board together or is there some other way I need to glue it up?

[SoloRider]

Not sure if this should go here or in the fiberglassing thread, but here's a question for you all:

If I'm building a board with two layers of BB ply, and I want to put a layer of fiberglass between the two pieces of wood, will the fiberglass/resin/epoxy be sufficient to bond the board together or is there some other way I need to glue it up?

I don't like fiberglass and epoxy between laminations. I think you run a much higher risk of delamination and the glass doesn't do much for you in the middle. It has a greater effect on flex and deck durability on the bottom or bottom/top.

[Dimm]

Not sure if this should go here or in the fiberglassing thread, but here's a question for you all:

If I'm building a board with two layers of BB ply, and I want to put a layer of fiberglass between the two pieces of wood, will the fiberglass/resin/epoxy be sufficient to bond the board together or is there some other way I need to glue it up?

Putting fiberglass in the middle of a board is a waste of fiberglass, epoxy, and your money. Always put reenforcing materials as far from the middle of the board as possible. There it will take on as much load as possible. Which is what it's good for.

Glue the plies together with an outdoor carpenter's wood glue (doesn't have to be Titebond III) and put the fiberglass on the bottom of the board. And top if you want. But if you are going to do top and bottom put more on the bottom.

[baudday]

I'm wondering, is it possible to make a drop through board using a jig press? If so, can anyone give some pointers on that?