Fiberglassing without a bag 101

[skidude331]

So I noticed quite a few people asking about fiberglassing and so I thought I'd stick some pictures up of the process, since the existing guide has none. Note that a few weeks ago I didn't know how to fiberglass, so this is very much musings of a novice. Still, it'll set you on the path and hopefully I'll get some good feedback here!

Firstly here's a great guide that's already on the site: http://www.silverfishlongboarding.co...ass-decks.html

I used that extensively to work out how to glass, but it was a little difficult without visuals. Hopefully this guide will help fill the gaps.

What you will need



1 ) Trusty Stanley knife.
2 ) Gloves of some form.
3 ) Resin + Hardener.
4 ) Trusty mixing stick.
5 ) Measuring glass of some form.
6 ) Glass/jar to put mix in (Jam jar works great).
7 ) Acetone (or vinegar) to have some way of breaking down resin.
8 ) Something to spread the resin around with. I use old credit cards.
9 ) Something to roll over the glass with to press it down.
10 ) (Optional) Plastic sheet of some form to smooth out top.
Note: Some people use breather masks. I guess you probably should, but as long as you aren't doing this every day, I'm sure it's fine.

As you can see, both jars can be reused. Once it's full of resin leftovers, you can smash the glass and it'll make a fine souvenir of the last X years! Notice that as you progress from a novice to an expert the leftover resin amounts *should* get smaller and smaller.

Preparation

You'll need a clean, preferably dust free flat workspace. I use my room floor, since I'm renting a flat and my flatmates get all annoyed at it in the kitchen.



Get your thing to put fibreglass on and put it down. I reckon you need at least 3x the size of the object as workspace. More if you're messy! Lay down some newspaper, it'll mean things stick to the newspaper instead of whatever is underneath it!

Make sure the object you want to glass has been sanded. Resin doesn't stick well to smooth surfaces. If your holes are drilled, resin's gonna go straight through there. Tape em up on the other side with a bit of duct tape, or block it off with wooden doweling.

Anything you don't want resin on should be taped up with some form of tape that the resin won't go through. A double layer of newspaper should be enough to stop it.



Cut your cloth: It should have at least 1 inch spare to play with outside the size of the object you're glassing.
(I know that isn't an inch, but this is scavenged glass :P)



Helpful tip!: Pull out a thread where you want to cut, then you can cut accurately across a line!

Optional step: Wipe the board down with acetone. This should remove grease etc. Make sure it evaporates before you put resin on!

Put your gloves on - you're ready to go!

The Actual Glassing

So, lay your prepared object down on your prepared worksurface. Go somewhere where you can see at the same level and start mixing your resin. Work out how much resin you need. Amount of resin needed is dependent on:

1) Size of jar you're putting it in - More resin mix in 1 place = faster curing. Less is better. Only ever put in enough to do one or two layers.
2) Room temperature - Hotter it is, faster it'll cure. If it's a hot day, use less!
3) Amount of fiberglassing you're doing - If you're doing a bigger board, you'll need more!
4) Type of glass you're using - Some glass absorbs more resin than others.

But remember, the important thing is to take it easy and slow. Once the resin is spread out across the glass it takes a lot longer to cure. So you've got plenty of time to go mix more!

Mark on the measuring glass how much resin you want. Do whatever mix you need to do and put it in your glass. Mix carefully, try not to get too many bubbles in there.

So here we are... the actual act of glassing.

Pour an amount of resin up the center of your board and spread this out.



There we go, first layer of resin done! Carefully place the first layer of glass over the wet resin.



As you can see, some areas have gone clear (ish), others stay as they were before. The clear bits show where the glass has absorbed the resin, the other bits show where you need to press it down. The aim is to have the whole thing clear. Gently roll over the cloth, pressing it down until it is entirely clear. You can also use the card at this stage to press it down.

If need be, add some more resin on top to ensure the whole thing is "wetted out".



Done! Layer one is successfully on. Now repeat the above for the next X layers. You don't need to add more resin to the layer before applying a new one like you did on the wood. Just follow the steps:
1) Lay down cloth on wet layer
2) Roll it out till it's pressed down
3) Add resin till it's clear!

Optional final step: Add plastic for a smooth finish. Just like a layer of fibreglass, put the plastic down gently and roll it till it's flat. I'm not going to do this. Don't forget to peel it off when you're in the green stage!

After Glassing

So after a while (anywhere between 1 and 8 hours, if not more!) the fibreglass will be in the "green" stage. There might be a slight greenish tint to the glass, I usually can't see it, so the test is when the glass stops being sticky. It might be a little bit sticky, but not much at all. At this stage, you should cut off the excess so it's smooth with your board edge.

Not sure if you're in the green stage yet? Stick your knife in a bit of the excess and try and cut it gently. Does it stick to the blade? If it does, put it down and be patient! If it doesn't, you're probably there.


(Green stage? I dunno, doesn't look very green to me. Still, I'm in a rush, so it's gotta be now).

It's helpful at this stage to have been a little messy, since it'll give you more solid stuff to play with. If you're trying to cut non wetted glass with a knife, it'll get all furry as the cloth strands come off (this will then stick to the glass you've done, so try to avoid the soft cloth!).



And we're done. Sand the edges when it's dry and admire your work!

Leave it for a week and it should be good!

Troubleshooting

Q: Oh crap! My resin just cured and I was halfway through this layer/etc!! What do I do!
A: Don't panic. Remember that the resin on your board should be fine for a good while yet. Get your emergency jam jar, you should have one somewhere. Mix up some more resin (less this time!) and get back to work!

Q: The fibers are all out of line and going nuts!
A: Gently pull diagonally around them. Really gently. They should line up.

Q: Oh ####! I got it on my skin/clothes!
A: Why do you think you've got some vinegar next to you?! Get it on there, wipe it off.

Material list

Resin: Poly vs Epoxy

Polyester:

• Far worse fumes.
• Cheap!
• Degrades much more in sunlight.
• Prone to fractures, microcracks, etc

Epoxy:

• Sticks better than polyester.

Basically...use epoxy. It's more expensive, but it really is worth it. Even if it's just for your lungs!

Glass

You have all sorts of cloth/mat - Biaxial, triaxial etc etc, different thicknesses, etc. All of this is dependent on what you want the cloth for. You'll have to do your own research and work out exactly what type/thickness you need. In general, higher price = more glass = stiffer/stronger.

There are 2 main ways of arranging of glass, cloth and mat. Mat is basically random fibers, cloth is woven properly in lines, like clothes. There's lots of opinions on the difference, here's my opinion.

Mat:

• Cheaper.
• Absorbs more resin.
• Weaker.

Cloth:

• Stronger
• Pain in the ass if the fibers get out of line

Some people say mat is harder to work with due to the mass of random fibers, some people say cloth is harder to work with because the fibers always need to stay in line. Who knows

There are also different types of glass, S and E are the most common I believe. S is much stronger, usually used for airplanes, that kind of thing. E is cheaper and weaker.

would the mat work even though it's less strong?

[R&R Boarding Co]

would the mat work even though it's less strong?

yes, but whats the point?
mat will turn clear just like the woven stuff, but its not as strong, its messier, and it doesnt look cool.... so why would you want to bother with it?

[Bryant@BCLongboards]

would the mat work even though it's less strong?

When we first started building boards, we used mat from a local boat shop to glass our boards. Didn't really pose any structural problems and it was readily available. It was great to start out with and learn the ropes of glassing with. Now we use a breed of S-glass but I'd say go for it, Its a great way to learn.

[piedogger]

Mat takes WAY more resin making your board unnessarily heavy.

[kdroyd]

Is it possible so build a whole board out of fiberglass?

[flannelman]

it would be really heavy if it was solely made of FG. resin and glass does weigh something. composite work by creating a beam, wrapped around a core. you really need to have a substance for the fiberglass to push against, if you will, so that is can become ridged. otherwise the epoxy will snap. the core braces the composites, and the composites reinforce the core.

[kdroyd]

Thats interesting, about the epoxy snaping. I wonder how Flexdex are made...

[flannelman]

well a flexdex is really freaking heavy, as if they were metal, and they just sag. they dont have a lot of strength, as they don't have a core, so they don't have strength. i assume they don't snap because they use a special resin. it may not be epoxy.

fiberglass acts as two planes that handle the stress differently. the further apart they are, the more they shift, and distort when flexed. so, having zero core, makes them noodle like. having a ridged foam core, that is thick, means that they two layers will become stiff.

[GhengisChron]

i put a layer of fiberglass down on both sides of a super old saggy s9 last week and its MUCH stiffer and safer feeling now.

stoked to paint it

[Maxx]

could you easily wet-out 12oz biaxial with a 3/4oz backing mat by hand?

[chandler95]

I started a thread but totally forgot about this thread haha..

I am thinking about putting another layer of fiberglass on the bottom of my 44" supercharger to stiffen it up a tad, however it already has a layer of glass on the bottom. Would I just rough it up with some sand paper to make it stick?

[Drang Longboards]

Where can I find resources on carbon fiber? It seems like its very similar to this process...

Are there a set number of differences in this process with carbon?

[Hairpin]

Where can I find resources on carbon fiber? It seems like its very similar to this process...

Are there a set number of differences in this process with carbon?

i believe it is the same process as this for carbon fibre, it just takes a bit more epoxy.

[Kristoffer]

I'm relatively new at board building, and I'm in the process of building my second board. I've reached the fiberglassing stage and have a couple of questions regarding it.

1. I've put a graphic on the bottom of it using permanent markers and the wood seems to be fairly saturated in those areas, will this prevent the epoxy from bonding properly with the wood in any way, and if so what can I do about it?

2. You guys speak of a poly to go over the fibreglass at the end, to protect it from UV-light, is this just a normal plyurethane varnish or something? And before applying it, do i have to sand the fibreglass to make it stick?

[Groundswell]

I started a thread but totally forgot about this thread haha..

I am thinking about putting another layer of fiberglass on the bottom of my 44" supercharger to stiffen it up a tad, however it already has a layer of glass on the bottom. Would I just rough it up with some sand paper to make it stick?

yeah you can just rough it up with some 100 grit or so, that and make sure it's clean clean, i'de prob do a acetone wipe before i sand,. i real clean way to do it that i like is run tape along the edge of the board, the drip zone, glass it, then when it's pretty hard but just a little along your edge, thtacky and rubber like, run a razor en just peel it all off, nice, clean, done.

[Groundswell]

just ventured back on here in a long while and this thread caught my eye. i just made a deck via poly resins and some 9oz cloth i had from doin surfboards. so spent a grand total of $5.79 on wood and now have a dervish like board.

tried to upload some pics but its not workin invalid image file, and all requirements are good.

what i did was take 2 1/4" pieces of wood and glassed them together with 2 layers of cloth inside, weighted them with some flex to get a nice raised middle, once that cured i drilled my holes for the board to avoid de-lam later on when drilling, and just used the holes as reference for all other measurments. then i glassed both sides, 2 cloth layers top 1 bottom. and ended up adding one more to the top to make it just a tad stiffer. cut it all out, routered the edges, quick sand, and just used a poly wood sealer on the edges to keep the moisture out.

really turned out great, lots of flex and super fun. and looks damn nice, everyone ask's whats inside it cause they can see that glass core. and under 10 bucks

one thing i didn't see people really talkin about was how much resin is bein used. i'm used to laminating, light sand, then putting sanding resin on, blocking it smooth, up to fine grit, then buffing it so it looks glassy, but i tried something different with this longboard.
when i was glassing (outside, not core) i kinda squeegied all the excess resin's off so it looks super clean, and just looks like it's made out of nitted wood. i think it really helps keep the weight down and keep the most important part, the fibers, able to really flex and do thier thing. It's a damned light board.

another thing is the uv ray concerns with poly resins, in reality, it's nothing to really worry about. i'de be more worried about moisture in your wood. most of the deck is gonna be covered in tape anyway. and **** surfboards have been made out of poly resins for years and now just switched to epoxy, i've never seen real uv damage on a surfboard and they see some real sun.

stoked to see other peoples glass jobs, i'll try to get some pics later by linking i guess

[JTRIDES]

Does one just normally waterproof the edges with outdoor finish, or do we spread the fiberglass over edges as well?

[cam bourke]

So I noticed quite a few people asking about fiberglassing and so I thought I'd stick some pictures up of the process, since the existing guide has none. Note that a few weeks ago I didn't know how to fiberglass, so this is very much musings of a novice. Still, it'll set you on the path and hopefully I'll get some good feedback here!

Firstly here's a great guide that's already on the site: http://www.silverfishlongboarding.co...ass-decks.html

I used that extensively to work out how to glass, but it was a little difficult without visuals. Hopefully this guide will help fill the gaps.

What you will need



1 ) Trusty Stanley knife.
2 ) Gloves of some form.
3 ) Resin + Hardener.
4 ) Trusty mixing stick.
5 ) Measuring glass of some form.
6 ) Glass/jar to put mix in (Jam jar works great).
7 ) Acetone (or vinegar) to have some way of breaking down resin.
8 ) Something to spread the resin around with. I use old credit cards.
9 ) Something to roll over the glass with to press it down.
10 ) (Optional) Plastic sheet of some form to smooth out top.
Note: Some people use breather masks. I guess you probably should, but as long as you aren't doing this every day, I'm sure it's fine.

As you can see, both jars can be reused. Once it's full of resin leftovers, you can smash the glass and it'll make a fine souvenir of the last X years! Notice that as you progress from a novice to an expert the leftover resin amounts *should* get smaller and smaller.

Preparation

You'll need a clean, preferably dust free flat workspace. I use my room floor, since I'm renting a flat and my flatmates get all annoyed at it in the kitchen.



Get your thing to put fibreglass on and put it down. I reckon you need at least 3x the size of the object as workspace. More if you're messy! Lay down some newspaper, it'll mean things stick to the newspaper instead of whatever is underneath it!

Make sure the object you want to glass has been sanded. Resin doesn't stick well to smooth surfaces. If your holes are drilled, resin's gonna go straight through there. Tape em up on the other side with a bit of duct tape, or block it off with wooden doweling.

Anything you don't want resin on should be taped up with some form of tape that the resin won't go through. A double layer of newspaper should be enough to stop it.



Cut your cloth: It should have at least 1 inch spare to play with outside the size of the object you're glassing.
(I know that isn't an inch, but this is scavenged glass :P)



Helpful tip!: Pull out a thread where you want to cut, then you can cut accurately across a line!

Optional step: Wipe the board down with acetone. This should remove grease etc. Make sure it evaporates before you put resin on!

Put your gloves on - you're ready to go!

The Actual Glassing

So, lay your prepared object down on your prepared worksurface. Go somewhere where you can see at the same level and start mixing your resin. Work out how much resin you need. Amount of resin needed is dependent on:

1) Size of jar you're putting it in - More resin mix in 1 place = faster curing. Less is better. Only ever put in enough to do one or two layers.
2) Room temperature - Hotter it is, faster it'll cure. If it's a hot day, use less!
3) Amount of fiberglassing you're doing - If you're doing a bigger board, you'll need more!
4) Type of glass you're using - Some glass absorbs more resin than others.

But remember, the important thing is to take it easy and slow. Once the resin is spread out across the glass it takes a lot longer to cure. So you've got plenty of time to go mix more!

Mark on the measuring glass how much resin you want. Do whatever mix you need to do and put it in your glass. Mix carefully, try not to get too many bubbles in there.

So here we are... the actual act of glassing.

Pour an amount of resin up the center of your board and spread this out.



There we go, first layer of resin done! Carefully place the first layer of glass over the wet resin.



As you can see, some areas have gone clear (ish), others stay as they were before. The clear bits show where the glass has absorbed the resin, the other bits show where you need to press it down. The aim is to have the whole thing clear. Gently roll over the cloth, pressing it down until it is entirely clear. You can also use the card at this stage to press it down.

If need be, add some more resin on top to ensure the whole thing is "wetted out".



Done! Layer one is successfully on. Now repeat the above for the next X layers. You don't need to add more resin to the layer before applying a new one like you did on the wood. Just follow the steps:
1) Lay down cloth on wet layer
2) Roll it out till it's pressed down
3) Add resin till it's clear!

Optional final step: Add plastic for a smooth finish. Just like a layer of fibreglass, put the plastic down gently and roll it till it's flat. I'm not going to do this. Don't forget to peel it off when you're in the green stage!

After Glassing

So after a while (anywhere between 1 and 8 hours, if not more!) the fibreglass will be in the "green" stage. There might be a slight greenish tint to the glass, I usually can't see it, so the test is when the glass stops being sticky. It might be a little bit sticky, but not much at all. At this stage, you should cut off the excess so it's smooth with your board edge.

Not sure if you're in the green stage yet? Stick your knife in a bit of the excess and try and cut it gently. Does it stick to the blade? If it does, put it down and be patient! If it doesn't, you're probably there.


(Green stage? I dunno, doesn't look very green to me. Still, I'm in a rush, so it's gotta be now).

It's helpful at this stage to have been a little messy, since it'll give you more solid stuff to play with. If you're trying to cut non wetted glass with a knife, it'll get all furry as the cloth strands come off (this will then stick to the glass you've done, so try to avoid the soft cloth!).



And we're done. Sand the edges when it's dry and admire your work!

Leave it for a week and it should be good!

Troubleshooting

Q: Oh crap! My resin just cured and I was halfway through this layer/etc!! What do I do!
A: Don't panic. Remember that the resin on your board should be fine for a good while yet. Get your emergency jam jar, you should have one somewhere. Mix up some more resin (less this time!) and get back to work!

Q: The fibers are all out of line and going nuts!
A: Gently pull diagonally around them. Really gently. They should line up.

Q: Oh ####! I got it on my skin/clothes!
A: Why do you think you've got some vinegar next to you?! Get it on there, wipe it off.

Material list

Resin: Poly vs Epoxy

Polyester:

• Far worse fumes.
• Cheap!
• Degrades much more in sunlight.
• Prone to fractures, microcracks, etc

Epoxy:

• Sticks better than polyester.

Basically...use epoxy. It's more expensive, but it really is worth it. Even if it's just for your lungs!

Glass

You have all sorts of cloth/mat - Biaxial, triaxial etc etc, different thicknesses, etc. All of this is dependent on what you want the cloth for. You'll have to do your own research and work out exactly what type/thickness you need. In general, higher price = more glass = stiffer/stronger.

There are 2 main ways of arranging of glass, cloth and mat. Mat is basically random fibers, cloth is woven properly in lines, like clothes. There's lots of opinions on the difference, here's my opinion.

Mat:

• Cheaper.
• Absorbs more resin.
• Weaker.

Cloth:

• Stronger
• Pain in the ass if the fibers get out of line

Some people say mat is harder to work with due to the mass of random fibers, some people say cloth is harder to work with because the fibers always need to stay in line. Who knows

There are also different types of glass, S and E are the most common I believe. S is much stronger, usually used for airplanes, that kind of thing. E is cheaper and weaker.

When you say 'add plastic for a smooth finish, what sort of plastic are you referring to?

[GELboardshop]

hey great tutorial all around!! if i only found this before my hours of searching!! but really nice job!! i'm planning on experimenting for future buisness in about a week so im hoping to be able to get some advice from you. Thanks again

[tenshots1]

hey guys. I have some URGENT Questions because i am about to fiberglass later today.


1) So right now i have a longboard that is water-based stained and spraypainted and i want to add fiberglass to the outside. Should i put paint a clear coat on, sand it down, then put glass on top or can i just put glass on top of the stain and paint without anything going wrong?

I have been havin a tough time finding the answer to this one.


2) Also, once i fiberglass what will be the pros, cons of putting a clear coat on top of that?


Thank you alot for the help!