Fiberglassing without a bag 101

[Dkofnrc]

I have no experience with CF whatsoever, but from what I understand, working with lightweight carbon is very similar to working with fiberglass. Have a search around and something'll pop up.

Working with cf is sorta like working with cloth fiberglass and no where close to matt. FYI. It's easy to wet out and can brush resin on. But takes shap to curves or radiuses better than cloth does. I'm a laminator at a company called simplex.
DK

[Dkofnrc]

sweet! thanks for the help but i wanted to do carbon fiber, what do need for that?

CF and glass use the same stuff. Resin and cataylist thats it.
DK

[yetti123]

i just tried to glass my board and i really f'd up, the pics help but does anyone know of a video of how to glass a board cuz that would help alot.

[Dkofnrc]

what did you fack up?
DK

[yamaslobber]

I will put in my two cents as an experienced surf board builder. I notice a couple of things in the post that could use clarification.

First, Acetone, although a very strong solvent is not the best thing to clean epoxy resin, or to wipe down the board with prior to glassing it. Also, being poisonous, it is not exactly the first thing you want to reach for to clean your hands. For that I prefer a little Goop, and a clean towel.

The best thing to use to clean your board, and your supplies is denatured alcohol (or DNA)
It mixes well with epoxy, and evaporates very quickly, making it an ideal choice to clean a wood board with (as it wont raise the grain after all your sandng) So, assuming the board was sanded to say, 320 grit, the DNA is the last step before you glass. You do not want any solvents, residue, or sweat on the wood. They will cause the glass to eventually de-laminate.

Second, I think I can describe the process between the first and second half of glassing by breaking it down to what we call "wetting out the glass" and the "hot-coat"

Wetting out the glass is just that, you are saturating all the little fibers, and making them adhere to the wood. A credit card is a very good tool for this. Do not fret about little imperfections in the weave as you do this, they will sort them selves out. If you have a white spot, it needs more resin. If you have a glossy spot, it has too much resin. It helps to use a long shop light at a low angle to see what is going on with the resin. In the end, you should have all of the weave saturated with resin, but the surface should look bumpy all over. Give the resin time to soak in to the glass. Dont push too hard with the credit card, or you will start cutting fibers. Take your time. In the end there are no glossy spots, no white spots, and resin should be dripping off all sides. Thats it. Go chill for about 2 to 5 hours.

Now, the next process (second coat) better named the "hot coat." The reason it is called the hot coat is because you are going to apply the next layer of resin before the first layer has fully cured. This is very important. Resin will only adhere well to a sanded surface or to a another layer of tacky resin. You cant sand the first layer, because you will be sanding right into the fiberglass. How do you tell when the first layer is ready? It will feel dry to the touch, but you will be able to dent it with your fingernail. Usually, two hours is enough to get to this stage.

A note on epoxy: I noticed some people metioned nice resins. Stick to professional boat-building resins like West Systems, Resin Research, or MAS. Stay away from epoxy at the big box store, it sucks. And whatever you do, do not use quick set epoxy, or five minute epoxy. Trust me. A good boat building epoxy will behave normally, and you have about a 30-40 minute working time.

OK, back to the hot-coat. Hot coats are better done with a bristle brush. Watch out for bristles falling on to the board. The idea here is to fill the weave. If you did the first step right, it should fill the weave without much effort. You will have a glossy finish all over. Try to get an even glossy coat. Use slow brush strokes to avoid air bubbles. When this is finished, let it dry overnight.

You can then sand it with 100 grit for a sanded finish. or you can sand it and then do another coat of resin (gloss coat) and then a final polish.

Oh, another thing on Epoxy resin. You have to stir the pot for a long time. I usually mix for about three minutes. You dont want to see any swirly marks in the mix.

[Chief Red Beef]

I had an issue that I have yet to see addressed.
I used quick cure epoxy on some vertical laminate boards a while ago and what I ended up with was a bunch of bubbles on my boards.
I figure that the wood was absorbing the epoxy and forming bubbles and the epoxy cured so fast that the bubbles got caught. Also there was a kind of milky appearance to the epoxy.
I switched to slow cure epoxy and got much better results.

[Dkofnrc]

I had an issue that I have yet to see addressed.
I used quick cure epoxy on some vertical laminate boards a while ago and what I ended up with was a bunch of bubbles on my boards.
I figure that the wood was absorbing the epoxy and forming bubbles and the epoxy cured so fast that the bubbles got caught. Also there was a kind of milky appearance to the epoxy.
I switched to slow cure epoxy and got much better results.

Did you trying rolling the fiberglass out? You can purchase rollers from any glass supplier that is meant to do just that.... roll bubbles out.



to yamaslobber: Nice post. Most of the time at work we just use tack cloths on our parts before layup just cause we don't want to risk messing up the gel coat or part with some thing like acetone or goop. I don't like using goop just simply cause it leaves a film. Every where else I have work, we have used alcohol which I like a lot more.

I vote tack cloths and alcohol
DK

[Niczo]

from my experiance with glass and what not.

i made a solid carbon normal twin kick back about 5 years ago and if was frickin freaky. so crazy sparks would fly out the back while dragging long hell cat manuals. and if was a mofo to carry coz carbon is worse on your skin than normal fibreglass. i learned that carbon is over kill for a longboard. if you want a board that stiff make it out of 18mm ply. the best glass weight to use for boards is either a 4oz or 8 oz "boat cloth" ( like the stuff used on surfboards) if thats not enough then double it up. using some EDB (epoxy double bias) 400 is like puting inch think iron on your ferrari. and it won't flex at all. if you glass the board and its too stiff bad luck but if you glas it and it's still to flexy put another layer on. just make sure you sand that glass well and truely first. the best epoxy to use is usely at a raio of 4 parts resin to 1 part hardner. and takes 12 hours to "dry'' and at least a couple of days to cure fully. so dont go jump on it the next day or it will delaminate. and yip acetone is nasty stuff but..harden the freak up. its only bad for like 2 seconds. i been in the shet for years and nothing bad has hapened yet. just don't go have a bath in it. Plus its also very good for thinning down resin but don't try this if you ain't done it before or your glass won't go off and i'll laugh saying i told you so.
and polyester resin is poo totally pooo .weak as. only half the bonding strenght of epoxy. epoxy doesnt smell as bad but it does twice the damage to you lungs and nerves. altho polyester gets you high as mofo. and then really easily drunk.lol boat builders are the biggest piss heads

any how i been building advanced composites for years just got back into longboarding coz my dirt bike days are over. first post cherry popped first diy board on the way. plus there is a lil thing called "peel ply" it is used to soak up extra resin and is great for this stuff. you peel it off after the resin has full dried and is good if you want put another glass layer on or laminated some more wood onto it.

ciao peeps.

[Dkofnrc]

Carbon wont produce sparks. Does it produce sparks when you cut it?... no. Peel ply isn't used to soak up extra resin. It's so that your carbon, glass wont stick to your mold when laying up. It allows you to just pop out your part once it's fully cured, then all you have to do is peel of the peel ply. To soak up exces resin you have to use a cotton material that is made just for fiberglassing.
DK

[Niczo]

man i ain't going to get into the finer points of glassing. go try it out . peel ply ( ié the stuff that has red lines down it it's nylon and you peel it off once the glass has full cured. is used to soak up resin it's also used for providing a surface that does not need to be sanded before applying paint or another layer of resin.
think what you want im outski. my advise use epoxy and 4 oz boat cloth. but go to a store or a surfboards maker and ask him.

check out the link.
http://www.laughingloon.com/epoxy.html

[Dkofnrc]

Finer points to glassing? Is there any metal in fiberglass or carbon? no. It is a material with resing, cataylst. No metal what so ever is used in any layup. You are right about the peel ply being used so you don't have to sand the surface, but it's also used inbetween molds and parts so they relase nice. Just looking at peel ply you know it wont absorb much resing at all. There is a peel ply that holds some resin. But the cotton material is far superior to the peel ply.

Vacuum Bagging Supplies - Fibre Glast Developments

I don't mean to sound like a dick. But I don't take any do it yourself guys word. If it is a credible site then thats a different story. The level at which I layup at work is nothing compared to guys laying up in their garage.
DK

[enemy combatant]

Just looking at peel ply you know it wont absorb much resing at all. There is a peel ply that holds some resin. But the cotton material is far superior to the peel ply.

No. Either perforated or permeable peel ply is made to be used with a breather and bleeder layer on the outside of the peel ply to soak up excess resin. This enables even a garage vac bag layup to achieve a reasonably high glass to resin ratio.

[Dkofnrc]

There is a peel ply that holds some resin. DK

I never said anything about it not being able to hold resin. All I was saying was that the cotton material will hold more resin. Can we agree on that?
DK

[Rich Nelson]

are any extra coats of epoxy or clear needed afte fiber glassing. or is just leaving it with the fiber glass cloth texture on the bottom ok, like if you scrape the bottom of the board will it hold up or will it like fray?

[Dkofnrc]

are any extra coats of epoxy or clear needed afte fiber glassing. or is just leaving it with the fiber glass cloth texture on the bottom ok, like if you scrape the bottom of the board will it hold up or will it like fray?

Nope none needed. If you scrape the bottom you simply take off glass but it wont fray. Leaving the cloth texture is fine to.
DK

[Rich Nelson]

so would adding a hot coat make the board significantly more durable or is mostly for asthetics?. because i like the look of the texture but if adding a hot coat or extra layer of clear after it dries would make it significantly more durable i would add it

[enemy combatant]

so would adding a hot coat make the board significantly more durable or is mostly for asthetics?

I go back and forth about this. Putting on a nice clear coat is a pain and it adds a lot of weight. Triax usually comes with decent mat woven in so it dries smooth enough. If I'm using regular 4 or 6oz surfboard glass, I include an outside layer of 1 or 2 oz "modeling" glass as part of the bottom layup. 1.2oz has a high thread count and a nice tight weave. If it gets scraped or beat up enough to fray I just epoxy and sand the damaged area.

[Dkofnrc]

I go back and forth about this. Putting on a nice clear coat is a pain and it adds a lot of weight. Triax usually comes with decent mat woven in so it dries smooth enough. If I'm using regular 4 or 6oz surfboard glass, I include an outside layer of 1 or 2 oz "modeling" glass as part of the bottom layup. 1.2oz has a high thread count and a nice tight weave. If it gets scraped or beat up enough to fray I just epoxy and sand the damaged area.

Mark this down in history. For the first time ever I agree with you! haha

DK

[nikko3188]

anyone, help me please?

i glassed my board using this method. while cutting out the excess, some of the edges delaminated. then i rode it a couple of times. the edges delaminated more and i decided to pull out the whole layer of glass to redo it again. apparently, the whole thing didnt stick to the wood >.<

i used poly resin and woven cloth. what could be the reason for this? not enough sanding? maybe the cold weather?(it was raining when i did this)

[smoothbrad]

So no vacuum bag was used...? Cool. That would mean your epoxy was pretty thin in consistency in order to impregnate the glass.
Which resin did your use?
Did you heat cure?