Fiberglassing without a bag 101

[silospen]

So I noticed quite a few people asking about fiberglassing and so I thought I'd stick some pictures up of the process, since the existing guide has none. Note that a few weeks ago I didn't know how to fiberglass, so this is very much musings of a novice. Still, it'll set you on the path and hopefully I'll get some good feedback here!

Firstly here's a great guide that's already on the site: http://www.silverfishlongboarding.co...ass-decks.html

I used that extensively to work out how to glass, but it was a little difficult without visuals. Hopefully this guide will help fill the gaps.

What you will need



1 ) Trusty Stanley knife.
2 ) Gloves of some form.
3 ) Resin + Hardener.
4 ) Trusty mixing stick.
5 ) Measuring glass of some form.
6 ) Glass/jar to put mix in (Jam jar works great).
7 ) Acetone (or vinegar) to have some way of breaking down resin.
8 ) Something to spread the resin around with. I use old credit cards.
9 ) Something to roll over the glass with to press it down.
10 ) (Optional) Plastic sheet of some form to smooth out top.
Note: Some people use breather masks. I guess you probably should, but as long as you aren't doing this every day, I'm sure it's fine.

As you can see, both jars can be reused. Once it's full of resin leftovers, you can smash the glass and it'll make a fine souvenir of the last X years! Notice that as you progress from a novice to an expert the leftover resin amounts *should* get smaller and smaller.

Preparation

You'll need a clean, preferably dust free flat workspace. I use my room floor, since I'm renting a flat and my flatmates get all annoyed at it in the kitchen.



Get your thing to put fibreglass on and put it down. I reckon you need at least 3x the size of the object as workspace. More if you're messy! Lay down some newspaper, it'll mean things stick to the newspaper instead of whatever is underneath it!

Make sure the object you want to glass has been sanded. Resin doesn't stick well to smooth surfaces. If your holes are drilled, resin's gonna go straight through there. Tape em up on the other side with a bit of duct tape, or block it off with wooden doweling.

Anything you don't want resin on should be taped up with some form of tape that the resin won't go through. A double layer of newspaper should be enough to stop it.



Cut your cloth: It should have at least 1 inch spare to play with outside the size of the object you're glassing.
(I know that isn't an inch, but this is scavenged glass :P)



Helpful tip!: Pull out a thread where you want to cut, then you can cut accurately across a line!

Optional step: Wipe the board down with acetone. This should remove grease etc. Make sure it evaporates before you put resin on!

Put your gloves on - you're ready to go!

The Actual Glassing

So, lay your prepared object down on your prepared worksurface. Go somewhere where you can see at the same level and start mixing your resin. Work out how much resin you need. Amount of resin needed is dependent on:

1) Size of jar you're putting it in - More resin mix in 1 place = faster curing. Less is better. Only ever put in enough to do one or two layers.
2) Room temperature - Hotter it is, faster it'll cure. If it's a hot day, use less!
3) Amount of fiberglassing you're doing - If you're doing a bigger board, you'll need more!
4) Type of glass you're using - Some glass absorbs more resin than others.

But remember, the important thing is to take it easy and slow. Once the resin is spread out across the glass it takes a lot longer to cure. So you've got plenty of time to go mix more!

Mark on the measuring glass how much resin you want. Do whatever mix you need to do and put it in your glass. Mix carefully, try not to get too many bubbles in there.

So here we are... the actual act of glassing.

Pour an amount of resin up the center of your board and spread this out.



There we go, first layer of resin done! Carefully place the first layer of glass over the wet resin.



As you can see, some areas have gone clear (ish), others stay as they were before. The clear bits show where the glass has absorbed the resin, the other bits show where you need to press it down. The aim is to have the whole thing clear. Gently roll over the cloth, pressing it down until it is entirely clear. You can also use the card at this stage to press it down.

If need be, add some more resin on top to ensure the whole thing is "wetted out".



Done! Layer one is successfully on. Now repeat the above for the next X layers. You don't need to add more resin to the layer before applying a new one like you did on the wood. Just follow the steps:
1) Lay down cloth on wet layer
2) Roll it out till it's pressed down
3) Add resin till it's clear!

Optional final step: Add plastic for a smooth finish. Just like a layer of fibreglass, put the plastic down gently and roll it till it's flat. I'm not going to do this. Don't forget to peel it off when you're in the green stage!

After Glassing

So after a while (anywhere between 1 and 8 hours, if not more!) the fibreglass will be in the "green" stage. There might be a slight greenish tint to the glass, I usually can't see it, so the test is when the glass stops being sticky. It might be a little bit sticky, but not much at all. At this stage, you should cut off the excess so it's smooth with your board edge.

Not sure if you're in the green stage yet? Stick your knife in a bit of the excess and try and cut it gently. Does it stick to the blade? If it does, put it down and be patient! If it doesn't, you're probably there.


(Green stage? I dunno, doesn't look very green to me. Still, I'm in a rush, so it's gotta be now).

It's helpful at this stage to have been a little messy, since it'll give you more solid stuff to play with. If you're trying to cut non wetted glass with a knife, it'll get all furry as the cloth strands come off (this will then stick to the glass you've done, so try to avoid the soft cloth!).



And we're done. Sand the edges when it's dry and admire your work!

Leave it for a week and it should be good!

Troubleshooting

Q: Oh crap! My resin just cured and I was halfway through this layer/etc!! What do I do!
A: Don't panic. Remember that the resin on your board should be fine for a good while yet. Get your emergency jam jar, you should have one somewhere. Mix up some more resin (less this time!) and get back to work!

Q: The fibers are all out of line and going nuts!
A: Gently pull diagonally around them. Really gently. They should line up.

Q: Oh ####! I got it on my skin/clothes!
A: Why do you think you've got some vinegar next to you?! Get it on there, wipe it off.

Material list

Resin: Poly vs Epoxy

Polyester:

• Far worse fumes.
• Cheap!
• Degrades much more in sunlight.
• Prone to fractures, microcracks, etc

Epoxy:

• Sticks better than polyester.

Basically...use epoxy. It's more expensive, but it really is worth it. Even if it's just for your lungs!

Glass

You have all sorts of cloth/mat - Biaxial, triaxial etc etc, different thicknesses, etc. All of this is dependent on what you want the cloth for. You'll have to do your own research and work out exactly what type/thickness you need. In general, higher price = more glass = stiffer/stronger.

There are 2 main ways of arranging of glass, cloth and mat. Mat is basically random fibers, cloth is woven properly in lines, like clothes. There's lots of opinions on the difference, here's my opinion.

Mat:

• Cheaper.
• Absorbs more resin.
• Weaker.

Cloth:

• Stronger
• Pain in the ass if the fibers get out of line

Some people say mat is harder to work with due to the mass of random fibers, some people say cloth is harder to work with because the fibers always need to stay in line. Who knows

There are also different types of glass, S and E are the most common I believe. S is much stronger, usually used for airplanes, that kind of thing. E is cheaper and weaker.

[bertman]

Awesome post! I just pressed a deck that needs to be slightly stiffer and this will help emmensely!

[tomahawk]

awesome writeup! pics make it very informative.

extra note on the green stage (from my experience), if you do it too soon, the epoxy won't be bonded to the deck fully either, so if you cut too hard too early, you can pull some cloth off the deck/wrinkle it etc and other nastyness

oh, and if you're out of jars/dont wanna clean jars, i've found cheap plastic cups work very well (the ubiquidous red party cups, or we have some spify clear cups that i prefer). and a cheap plastic knife to mix it all up

[Stupendous Man]

Awesome, thanks much for taking the time to make a good walk through.
I do have a question though. Where would you start looking to find these supplies, and how readily available are they. Ive never seen epoxy resin and s glass in any store Ive ever been in.

[silospen]

Awesome, thanks much for taking the time to make a good walk through.
I do have a question though. Where would you start looking to find these supplies, and how readily available are they. Ive never seen epoxy resin and s glass in any store Ive ever been in.

Well, it very much varies from state to state and country to country, so it's difficult for me to give you any specific advice. You'd need someone who lives near you to answer that question.

However, surfers and boat builders both use fiberglass in great quantities. If you can find any marine shops in the area, or any surf shops, or even any small boat clubs (you know, like kayaks and canoes), they're likely to know where you can get it locally, or which websites you can ship it from.

I purchase all my resin online from UK chandlers (since I'm in the UK!), so I imagine there will be similar places online in the US. You can almost certainly buy glass online too, it's just a case of finding it!

[bombsies]

I don't think it is necessary to apply resin to the board before you apply the fiberglass and resin. But if you feel like taking extra steps, go for it.

what do I know about glassing?

[Shimotakimas]

This calls for a sticky. Nice tutorial. I'll put this in the library after its got enough views.

[his415]

Beautiful post!

One side note, do not absolutely do not use polyester indoors... that stuff is super uber toxic!

[z92s]

Nice post, but i as well got some questions mi amigo.

how do you bend the board into shape without a vacuum bag or whatever, just by using weights? becuase it is all sticky and what not, so to put weights on it wont it mess up the fiberglass????

[SteveC]

in this method the board is fully formed before the glass goes on it.
toothless is a good place to start.

Welcome to the 'fish.

[mrpauliepants]

Yeah, as stated above, you would have already bent and formed the deck, fiberglass is one of the last stages.


Quick question on my part though, is there any concern about what kind of paint/graphic to use when fiberglassing? Obviously the graphic is going to be dry/complete long before. Would epoxy fiberglass mess any of that up? And what does anyone know about using decals as a graphic? Would you apply that just before fiberglassing the deck?

[z92s]

well, i have been using toothless, but he has fiber glass between the board as well..

i am stuck in a hole as of now,

so far, i took my two birch ply (not cut or shaped) and placed fiber glass sheet between the two plys with resin and epoxy. and then i added a sheet of fiber glass to the top of the board. and am letting it dry so i could flip and glass the bottom. so nevermind shaping i guess...
but what will be the cons of this situation ??

[jspats40]

word son word...

[silospen]

Quick question on my part though, is there any concern about what kind of paint/graphic to use when fiberglassing? Obviously the graphic is going to be dry/complete long before. Would epoxy fiberglass mess any of that up? And what does anyone know about using decals as a graphic? Would you apply that just before fiberglassing the deck?

I haven't had any issues with slapping epoxy straight over paint (both water and oil based), but I suppose it is possible you might get some solvent effect from the epoxy causing slight discolouring of the wood around the graphic.

One common method I see around here is to apply a layer of your clear coat of choice over the decal/graphic/paint and then let it dry. Sand it down a little to rough it up and then put the glass over it. As it's rough, it should stick to it just fine. You should be able to do this with epoxy, even if glassing straight over may cause some movement of the paint, since you can be a lot more careful. Use a small brush, do it slowly and I'm sure it'll be fine.

Remember - Just like with everything else, it might be worth trying it out on an offcut first. Then you can be sure.

well, i have been using toothless, but he has fiber glass between the board as well..

i am stuck in a hole as of now,

so far, i took my two birch ply (not cut or shaped) and placed fiber glass sheet between the two plys with resin and epoxy. and then i added a sheet of fiber glass to the top of the board. and am letting it dry so i could flip and glass the bottom. so nevermind shaping i guess...
but what will be the cons of this situation ??

I'm slightly confused by your question, here's what you should have done:

1) Made a press to get the shape of the board that you want.
2) Put the glass sandwiched between the plys (as per toothless).
3) Put the board in the press until it's dry.
4) Now glass the top and bottom.

Or:

1) Make a press to get the shape of the board that you want.
2) Put glue sandwiched between the plys.
3) Put board in press until dry.
4) Now glass top/bottom.

If you've glassed 2 bits of wood together, you aren't going to be able to bend them now. Did you keep the plys under pressure while they were being glassed together?

@All: Thanks for the kind comments

[z92s]

well, i ment as in..

what will i have to deal with since i did this like.. will it be hard to cut? am i a total idiot?


i was curious about fiber glass, does it make your board strong or flexible???

[silospen]

well, i ment as in..

what will i have to deal with since i did this like.. will it be hard to cut? am i a total idiot?


i was curious about fiber glass, does it make your board strong or flexible???

It will probably be quite hard to cut. But hey ho, see what happens You're not an idiot by any means, it's a good learning experience. Measure twice cut once and all that, do some more reading, learn some more stuff and the next board you build can only be better.

Strong or flexible...an interesting question.

Fiberglass is funny stuff, all composites are really. If you put it on a piece of wood, it isn't magically going to become flexible if it was solid before. And vice versa, if it was flexy before it isn't going to suddenly become strong.

I think you might want to separate strength and flexibility in your mind, they aren't mutually exclusive. A rock will break while a tree bends. One is clearly stronger than the other, but because the tree can flex, it is inherently stronger in many situations. Just because something bends doesn't mean it isn't strong. Boats are designed from fiberglass because it has this ability, it can absorb the power of the wave by bending rather than taking the full force. It's really funny being out in a gale and feeling the boat bending, makes you realise the magic of fiberglass.

Fiberglass is best described as adding stiffness. If makes your board stiffer than it was before, depending on the glass etc. It keeps the wood flexible (because fiberglass itself is flexible) and by taking the weight off the wood, it also makes the board stronger.

It does different things in different places, in between plys it should add more stiffness than on the top of bottom.

[z92s]

i have never chatted with a long boarder that is so wise. thanks man, i really appreciate it.

[z92s]

One more question,

some parts of the board is very dry and you can feel the texture , and theres some parts wheres its still soaked. what did i do wrong?

or it just need to dry?

[silospen]

One more question,

some parts of the board is very dry and you can feel the texture , and theres some parts wheres its still soaked. what did i do wrong?

or it just need to dry?

Maybe you didn't spread out your resin properly? You should be able to feel the cloth anyway, that's not a problem. Just leave it be and wait for it to go hard. If it doesn't, then perhaps you didn't mix it right? Time will tell

[Dkofnrc]

If I might add a couple of notes.
1. Poly resin is bad stuff true but laying up one board isn't going expose you to enough fumes to hurt you.
2. Use a paint roller to remove the acess resin.
3. Use a fiberglass roller meant for rolling out bubbles out of the glass.
4. You don't need to wet the part you are working on in order for the glass to stick.
5. Depending on how fast you want resin to cure for 1 quart of resin 5cc's of cataylist.

DK