Vacuum Bagging Info - FYI

[steelshield09]

Ran across this while researching fiberglass epoxy brands. It's a primer manual for using epoxy in vacuum bagging - a lot of this is for marine applications (boats), but it'd be useful if someone wasn't sure how vacuum bags could be put together. Anyway, thought it'd be handy to have up here, for the less experienced among us (and I place myself solidly in that category, fo sho.)

West System Use Guides - Vacuum Bagging Techniques

[aegolas1]

Great info thanks for posting

Matt

[Cranks]

they also have all the supplies you need, like breather mesh, release ply, VACUUM FILM for all you people that dont like the TAP bags, and more.

[Ted]

they also have all the supplies you need, like breather mesh, release ply, VACUUM FILM for all you people that dont like the TAP bags, and more.

Post some of the decks, tutorials, new processes, competitions that you have shared with this community cranks and I might take your, as usual snarky comments about what I do to heart. Until then, put up or shut up! You are such an a&ss!
Ted

[neuros]

I use SpaceSaver Vacuum bags with no issues.
Not yet for making skateboards, but other lamming projects that have come up at school.
You can't beat 10 bags for $15, even if they rip, melt, whatever. And you can more or less get the same amount of vacuum with a shop vac as you would if you were hand pumping it.

And ted, I don't know why you took offense to what Cranks said... He seemed to just be offering people an alternative. Isn't a market full of alternative choices what capitalism is all about?

[thomasberg]

Post some of the decks, tutorials, new processes, competitions that you have shared with this community cranks and I might take your, as usual snarky comments about what I do to heart. Until then, put up or shut up! You are such an a&ss!
Ted

Why does he need to prove he's built a board to give people links to places where they can buy vacuum film, a proven and tested method?

[Ted]

Why does he need to prove he's built a board to give people links to places where they can buy vacuum film, a proven and tested method?

I agree, the more info the better and you don't have to be a rockit scientist to offer it up. My opinion about crank still stands. The question has been asked more than once by not just me, I would be real interested in seeing some of your bagged sticks.
Ted

[boby]

I said this before. I own a TAP kit. Lov'it.

Giving it some good use at the moment. A few boards on the go. I don't see how you could complain about a Roarockit. It makes it soo easy! Thanks Ted, you get my support. All my Race decks go through you Vac-bag.

[thomasberg]

I said this before. I own a TAP kit. Lov'it.

Giving it some good use at the moment. A few boards on the go. I don't see how you could complain about a Roarockit. It makes it soo easy! Thanks Ted, you get my support. All my Race decks go through you Vac-bag.

I agree, Ted's roarockit supplies are magnificent, I wish I had one, but I don't see how anyone is slandoring his good name. Unless this conversation has gone down in another thread before and I am just out of the loop.

[Ted]

I agree, Ted's roarockit supplies are magnificent, I wish I had one, but I don't see how anyone is slandoring his good name. Unless this conversation has gone down in another thread before and I am just out of the loop.

That be the case!
Thanks for the kind words.

I can share these links with you:
This is a video that was done last month.
http://www.mattswoodshop.libsyn.com/...board&search=1
Also an article that came out in November:
http://popularwoodworking.coverleaf..../200811/?pg=77

They are both basic builds but I think the good part is they introduce deckbuilding to a group who would have not thought that building a skateboard deck was an option.
Enjoy
Ted

[aegolas1]

+1 for roarockit awesomeness

[TIMORNE]

Post some of the decks, tutorials, new processes, competitions that you have shared with this community cranks and I might take your, as usual snarky comments about what I do to heart. Until then, put up or shut up! You are such an a&ss!
Ted

I don't see anything wrong with what Cranks said,it's just his opinion.

[jestah]

Post some of the decks, tutorials, new processes, competitions that you have shared with this community cranks and I might take your, as usual snarky comments about what I do to heart. Until then, put up or shut up! You are such an a&ss!
Ted

Ted i must say that i have never uesd your system but have always rather respected your opinion untill this post. I come from a boat building background and can see many different times when your kit, while very good for some bagging jobs, would not be the best choice.

I do not feel that cranks post was at all "snarky" but rather stating a fact that this is an OTHER source for vac bagging supplies for people who may prefer to use different product. When i read this thread the only snarky comment i could find was the one above which is a shame considering how much you have done for board building.

[thomasberg]

+1 for roarockit awesomeness

I second that

[thomasberg]

I saw the podcast that Ted posted, and it seems like roarockit is getting noticed by everyone, I would not be surprised at all if nearly every woodworker hobbyist in the country had one of these before 5 years are up.

[AM Wood Skateboard Co]

Great .pdf!

An opinion:
I'm all for Ted's products, they are A+ and his customer service is great. I've used a TAP for a while now, pushed the small bag to its limits and only have good things to say about it. I have also constructed many TAP clones out of various materials for larger layups. Some bags have met the performance of the TAP kit, most have been utter fails compared to it. Any one getting into vac-bagging should look at getting a TAP.


Some lessons learned:
SpaceSavers, tired that one.. i now have money to spend
Created a double length SpaceBag (coined!) used with a shop vac and a hand pump. Shop vac for the majority of the volume then a hand pump to bring it down. A Shop Vac alone will NOT be able to create enough vacuum IMHO. Also be prepared for bag splits.

Roarockit | How to build custom skateboard decks, with woodworking plans and woodworking tools
Joe Woodworker - Woodworking, Vacuum Pressing and Veneering Information Website
Fiberglass, Carbon Fiber - Fibre Glast Developments Corp.
Google

[cam75]

i personally have always thought that TAp bags were inappropriate for laminating with epoxy
i have posted stuff along these lines before and Ted replied saying there was no problem
but from my reading i have seen that the laminate should stay in the bag, under vacuum for 24 hours.
With a roarockit bag you would have to stay up all night and keep drawing air out.
also it is recommended that the vacuum is between 9 and 13 inches of mercury
with a roarockit bag there is no way of telling this, as it lacks a guage.
so therefore i believe that in applications (such as building foamcores or using expensive laminates such as carbon) the TAP bag is not good
just my opinion though
EDIT
but having said that the tap bag is good for the straight lamination of wood when not using epoxy

[Ted]

i personally have always thought that TAp bags were inappropriate for laminating with epoxy
i have posted stuff along these lines before and Ted replied saying there was no problem
but from my reading i have seen that the laminate should stay in the bag, under vacuum for 24 hours.
With a roarockit bag you would have to stay up all night and keep drawing air out.
also it is recommended that the vacuum is between 9 and 13 inches of mercury
with a roarockit bag there is no way of telling this, as it lacks a guage.
so therefore i believe that in applications (such as building foamcores or using expensive laminates such as carbon) the TAP bag is not good
just my opinion though
EDIT
but having said that the tap bag is good for the straight lamination of wood when not using epoxy

That's pretty interesting comment, considering I used the TAP for all my PINCH builds without any of the above problems you mention. I think these decks are as sophisticated as they get on this forum.
Check some of them out if you have not yet:
PINCH - a set on Flickr

Use whatever process that works for you. If you get a deck out of it in the end...that is all that counts. My initial post here was not directed towards the process you choose to build a deck from but a forum members comments in this and past posts towards me and what I do.

Ted

[thomasberg]

i personally have always thought that TAp bags were inappropriate for laminating with epoxy
i have posted stuff along these lines before and Ted replied saying there was no problem
but from my reading i have seen that the laminate should stay in the bag, under vacuum for 24 hours.
With a roarockit bag you would have to stay up all night and keep drawing air out.
also it is recommended that the vacuum is between 9 and 13 inches of mercury
with a roarockit bag there is no way of telling this, as it lacks a guage.
so therefore i believe that in applications (such as building foamcores or using expensive laminates such as carbon) the TAP bag is not good
just my opinion though
EDIT
but having said that the tap bag is good for the straight lamination of wood when not using epoxy

I'm thinking that if you have to keep pumping it then you didn't get a good seal, because from what I have seen if you get it done right it can hold a good vacuum for a couple days without problems. As for epoxy, I am not sure why that makes a difference, is it because epoxy would stick to the bag, if that's the case there are always various combinations of films and bleeders that you can use to keep the bag from coming in contact. Lastly, about the gauge, I agree, a gauge would be nice, but it's not entirely necessary for the application of longboard crafting because the idea is that if you set it up correctly then it's enough to layer a foamcore. If it's such an important feature then you can always install one yourself via http://www.veneersupplies.com/produc...roducts_id=246 and http://www.veneersupplies.com/produc...products_id=53.

** I'm not trying to bash you, I'm just saying that in theory and practice it seems to work for most other people, I mean check out Bobby's sugarboards, they are fantastic, some call them wooden wefunk boards, yet they were successfully crafted in a roarockit bag.

[cam75]

I'm thinking that if you have to keep pumping it then you didn't get a good seal, because from what I have seen if you get it done right it can hold a good vacuum for a couple days without problems. As for epoxy, I am not sure why that makes a difference, is it because epoxy would stick to the bag, if that's the case there are always various combinations of films and bleeders that you can use to keep the bag from coming in contact. Lastly, about the gauge, I agree, a gauge would be nice, but it's not entirely necessary for the application of longboard crafting because the idea is that if you set it up correctly then it's enough to layer a foamcore. If it's such an important feature then you can always install one yourself via Valve Stem Assembly Heavy Duty - VeneerSupplies.com $9.95 and Vacuum Gauge - VeneerSupplies.com $11.90.

** I'm not trying to bash you, I'm just saying that in theory and practice it seems to work for most other people, I mean check out Bobby's sugarboards, they are fantastic, some call them wooden wefunk boards, yet they were successfully crafted in a roarockit bag.

yeah no worries man
i have never actually used a TAP bag so my opinion is probably biased
but from a few reviews i have heard on places such as joe woodworker, etc...
anyhow, the main problem i see with using epoxy and a tap bag is the issue of pressure. i like to think i know what im talking about with vacuum bagging stuff (check out some of my builds) and there is no difference in issues of it sticking to the bag as with a more professional set up
but whatever
just my opinion
theyre still an excellent product though for beginner builders