This is not from one of my boards, I want to make that completely clear before I even start. This is a scrap from a deck built by a couple local kids:
They asked if I would make it a dropthrough for them. I told them I would as long as they understood that it wasn't going to last, it broke the first time they rode it. They used Gorilla Glue for their layup and didn't have good pressure across the board. The rails were solid but the entire center had foamed up just as you can see in the photo. That's a full 1/16" of foam between the layers.
If you are unable to create ideal conditions for a polyurethane glue it will foam, and it will fail. If you don't know if your conditions are ideal, they aren't.
I've had finish carpenters with 30 years in the trades screw up on my jobs because they didn't understand the difference between PVA and poly glues. Simply put, there's a lot more room for error in PVA glues and the extra strength that often lures people to poly is overkill(and difficult to actually achieve).
[/rant]
__________________
Last edited by SoloRider; 08-31-2009 at 12:06 PM..
Haha looks like grip tape! Lowes has always carried small sizes of III and now even HD carries the small size, $7.00 is a small price to pay...
Great demo!
Poly glues have NO STRENGTH when there is any gap between the veneers. The stuff needs wood to wood contact for there to be any bonding strength. Super strong however when the pieces are clamped tight. Look out if it is not! The stuff foams and expands as it sets. It is possible for the veneers to get pushed apart as the poly glue expands if they are not evenly clamped.
They also have banned this type of glue from all schools in Canada as the fumes as it kicks are carcinogenic.
Woodworkers glue like Titebond III also have little gap filling strength. If there are gaps, epoxy is the only glue that will maintain its strength.
Ted
__________________
ROAROCKIT..Builder Supply Resource for deckbuilding including hard to find 1/16" maple. World's first skateboard making school and inventor of the foam mold skateboard kit.
We've taught over 10,000 people how to make skateboards
let me start off by saying i hate gorilla glue with a passion............
about a year and a half ago when i first got into longboard building i decided to use gorilla glue cause some guy online reccommended it or somethin like that. i get all my supplies ready to go and i start spreading the glue. after spreading it around and moving the veneers i had a buch of the glue all over my hands. i tried getting it off with pretty much everything and that stuff does not come off. my hands were covered in gorilla glue for weeks
I think the whole niche for gorilla glue is for stuff thats going to be clamped HARD and is very roughly porous so it can benefit from the gap filling/foaming. It can actually be ridiculously strong if you understand the chemistry and know how to give it ideal conditions to do its job. This includes misting all surfaces to be bonded with water, which some people neglect to do. The stuff needs water to react and it will be horribly weak without it (or if its forced to get its water from only the ambient air).
For lamination and veneers, titebond type glues are always going to be better.
Thanks for the info! I'm starting my 2nd build and am doing a press...almost got sucked into the GG hype. I'll probably go with epoxy; any suggestions on that?
Slan'
__________________
"I'm tellin' you, you're going to want more cowbell"
so PVA glue and GG glue not good?
so which one is better PVA or GG?
I'm guessing you're responding to Ted's comment. PVA and PVAc glues are just fine, it's polyurethane glues that I object to. PVA glues are more tolerant to uneven pressure whereas poly glue will foam and separate anywhere you don't have adequate pressure. Any gaps(no pressure) and neither glue will work, you can fill w/ epoxy(and preferably some sort of filler, sawdust, colloidal silica, etc.) and be structurally sound but then we're into a whole different topic.
Basically what my argument boils down to is this: You're wasting your time using poly glue unless you've got plenty of experience with it and know exactly what you're doing, even then you probably shouldn't use it. I've used it for years and continue to use it in very specific applications and it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever use it to build a deck.
But edge joining well clamped strips it's solid.
It doesn't dull tools and edges that badly.
Cleans up well with a scraper - similar to some hardwoods.
Also good "cheap" tenons like biscuiting or doweling it'd be fine - although that seems unlikely to be useful to longboarders.
It's a mess, you have to mist low moisture boards/wood, it foams all over, working time is limited, it stains your skin (ugh!).
So yeah, it's trickier than yellow glue, epoxy..still useful sometimes though.
-thaw-
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloRider
I'm guessing you're responding to Ted's comment. PVA and PVAc glues are just fine, it's polyurethane glues that I object to. PVA glues are more tolerant to uneven pressure whereas poly glue will foam and separate anywhere you don't have adequate pressure. Any gaps(no pressure) and neither glue will work, you can fill w/ epoxy(and preferably some sort of filler, sawdust, colloidal silica, etc.) and be structurally sound but then we're into a whole different topic.
Basically what my argument boils down to is this: You're wasting your time using poly glue unless you've got plenty of experience with it and know exactly what you're doing, even then you probably shouldn't use it. I've used it for years and continue to use it in very specific applications and it'll be a cold day in hell before I ever use it to build a deck.
On the subject of glue, I noticed on my TB III bottle it says Not for load bearing or structural projects. However everyone and their mother recommends it over GG, which doesn't mention anything like that. Why is it that it says that if it's great for longboards, which I would think become load bearing when complete?
__________________ He who makes a monster of himself escapes the pain of being a man. -HST
__________________
I drive every day by and she tries to seduce me,I can hear her sayin' "Draw pretty thane lines on my new black dress,go crazy on me, go sidewayz"
yeah gorilla glue isn't much more than a foaming insulation that acts like a glue. a lotta people just think "oh I've heard of it, some people rave about it, it MUST be good." It is good for some projects, but longboarding definitely isn't one of them.
__________________
I support
ECC MHS Cindrich Legendary Soda Factory Sayshun Surf-Rodz ...And many more
This is not from one of my boards, I want to make that completely clear before I even start. This is a scrap from a deck built by a couple local kids:
They asked if I would make it a dropthrough for them. I told them I would as long as they understood that it wasn't going to last, it broke the first time they rode it. They used Gorilla Glue for their layup and didn't have good pressure across the board. The rails were solid but the entire center had foamed up just as you can see in the photo. That's a full 1/16" of foam between the layers.
If you are unable to create ideal conditions for a polyurethane glue it will foam, and it will fail. If you don't know if your conditions are ideal, they aren't.
I've had finish carpenters with 30 years in the trades screw up on my jobs because they didn't understand the difference between PVA and poly glues. Simply put, there's a lot more room for error in PVA glues and the extra strength that often lures people to poly is overkill(and difficult to actually achieve).
[/rant]
so i recently made a homemade board and my dad... was like refusing to buy any other type of glue. we made a "half a dimm" press. the positive side on top of scrap wood. we dampend the wood first. the put in gorilla glue. we layed 3/8 inch reg plywood across the top and screwed down. all the way down the board. there was no foamin what so ever except for excess on the out side of the board do u think itll break? or will it last. im rode the board d say about 4 times just going and bombing the bigger neighborhood stuff. and it seems sturdy. what do u guys think?
__________________
First home made board. started 11/6/09 fin:11/17/09
Why I don't ever recommend Gorilla Glue
Linear Mode
