Is my current setup ADEQUATE for learning how to pump?

[mathico]

Hey, so I've only known how to longboard for about a month now, but I've gotten pretty decent at cruising around ASU, and two days ago, I saw this guy doing something I'd never seen before... after some intense research, I discovered the term: PUMPING

So that's all I've been able to think about. I would love to not have to push, and watching this guy surf the sidewalk like I had never seen was - NO HOMO - sexy as hell. I've logged a few hours trying and cannot figure it out if I'm getting it or not; half the time it feels like I'm just slowing myself down faster. But I've been told a stock board is never good enough, so I have to wonder... is anything on my current board hindering me from learning how to pump correctly? I have:

Sector 9 Cosmic Series "Sections" Stock, which includes:

Deck 34.0""L x 8.25"W x 23"WB
Trucks 8.375" Gullwing Mission Trucks
Wheels 65mm/78a Nineball Wheels
Bearings Abec 5 Greaseball Bearings
Hardware Patented ClearGrit riding surface, 1.5" Bolt Pack, Angled Risers

I have loosened the trucks considerably; the stiffness just wasnt going to cut it for navigating campus traffic. My front truck is slightly looser than my rear, if that helps any, but they're both pretty damn loose...

I've acquired some Bones Ceramic Reds, but was waiting til my cousin came to town with some 81mm nineballs he never used... so would the better bearings or bigger (and marginably softer) wheels help at all? More importantly, is the style/flex/length/wheelbase/TRUCKS etc of my board hindering me at all?

Do know, I didn't come in here without doing some research; I have found some good online resources for technique, for example, I've read and re-read (and re-read):
Silverfish Longboarding - The Longboard Skateboard Community - Propelling Yourself With Turns; How to pump by Daniel Gesmer

but I'm just getting frustrated, especially with some guys having claimed it didnt take them more than 15 minutes in some forums; I picked up on longboarding encouragingly quick, so this contrast is killing me... Any advice would be much appreciated, regarding either gear or technique, though I'm primarily after if the problem lies mainly with myself, or my somewhat unusual (at least to what I see around campus) board. Thanks everyone...

[andyroo2000]

I'd say give it some more time.

Find a flat and empty basketball or tennis court and keep trying different things out until it clicks. If you keep trying, eventually it will.

Your setup should be fairly easy to pump on, once you figure out how to do it. However, replacing the stock bushings in your trucks might make it a little easier.

I spent several hours trying to figure it out myself. I kept thinking I was kind of getting it, but I wasn't quite there. And then at some point, you accidentally move the right way a few times in a row and realize what is propelling you forward... and from then on you are golden.

Just give some more time, and you'll definitely get it. You'll know you have it for sure when you can actually speed up using pumping.

[mathico]

You read my mind... I was planning to use the Rural parking structure at night when there's no one up there; its a huge empty and SMOOTH surface.

I know nothing about bushings, having just learned what they are in the past 24 hours... what would be the advantage of better quality bushings? But thanks for the reassurance... and confirming that the problem is with me, and not my board haha

[Midway]

Get some better bushings and a wheel with a nice grippy lip.

[andyroo2000]

Bushings that come with trucks are often kind of dead - meaning that they don't rebound - they've lost their springiness. A fresh pair of decent quality bushings will return your trucks to center faster when they aren't being turned. This makes it easier to pump.

There are several different makers of bushings, such as Khiro, Bones, Venom etc. People like different bushings for different reasons, but anything by these companies would be way better than the stock bushings that come with Gullwings.

I have some medium Bones bushings on my Gullwings and I can definitely pump like crazy on my S9 Cosmic Weave.

A set of new bushings for both trucks will only cost you $10 and will make a big improvement in your ride. And after you get used to your first pair, you can decide if you'd like to go with harder or softer bushings for your next pair or just stick with whatever you get the first time.

The important thing is just to not use the stock ones, since the they kind of cut corners on the stock bushings and they are not as nice to ride.

[isk]

sure its adequate...

you can even learn to pump on a normal friggin skateboard.

heres me doing it:

[schwaf]

People often say that any set up can be pumped. While this is true, people often neglect to mention that certain set ups are easier than others, and learning on a board that's not tuned to be easy to pump will be considerably more difficult to learn on. Although I've only skated M1's for about 5 minutes a few years back, I'm sure they'll work just fine. Definitely put in some new bushings though, it'll make a world of difference. Try putting in some harder bushings in back and soft ones up from. Just about any good company can give you the bushings you're looking for. I learned how to pump on Khiros, but that was before Venom released. Either will suffice and make your board far more enjoyable to skate on. I've also found it easier to learn how to pump if you over exaggerate the motion until you start understanding the feeling. Once you get the hang of it you can refine the movements until you pump cleanly.

[vertigonoirxvii]

what schwaf said. start looking at the most economic setup. buy some soft bushings for the front truck, and some harder ones for the rear. that doesnt cost that much. bushings really make a huge difference. or if your front truck is already pretty turny, crank down the rear a bit. but getting bushings with good rebound is key. a lot of people start with khiros, but right now my jam is reflex bushings.

If you have a bit more cash to spend, buy some khiro wedge risers and just point both skinny ends of the riser towards the front. this is called wedging. the front will be wedged while the rear will be dewedged.

if you really don't care how much cash you wanna spend, a good place to start is to get the khiro bushing kit and the khiro wedge rail kit. that is about the cheapest way to get a bunch of stuff that you can try out till you dial in your setup.

but like I said, bushings are where its at for pumping. ive spent hours trying out which bushing combos work for me. next to that is finding out what wedging will make your setup easier to pump. but with wedging you definitely will need to find some longer bolts.

hope this helps, and if you have anymore questions, let us know. the best places for info on pumping and pumping setups would be pavedwave.org and galaclandsurfing.com. pavedwave is the holy grail and has just about any info you need and is where I learned the most about pumping in addition to research on the fish. galac has an interesting tech section which also has some good info.

[mathico]

BUSHINGS IT IS!!! Haha

So I'll pick up some bushings, and chime in on how it goes in a day or so, if anyone is still interested.

I am going to tweak one component at a time for now, and screwin with the angle of my trucks can wait, I think. That kind of intimidates me right now, haha, but I think it wouldn't be too difficult, especially since my board came with angled risers... ya?

I am going to do my best to get hard-back soft-front; that seems to be the recommendation. Thanks for the resource links too!!! And of course, Imma work my ass off til I get this. Thanks for all the help guys!

Oh, I forgot to ask, what do you think about me changing out my 65's for some 81's my cousin has? Will it make things harder? Easier? They're really appealing, cuz they're 75A and supposedly super grippy... being nineballs and what not... Opinions?

[Kenny_Ledesma]

Heres my advice. Buy a party pack of bushings from mark and a khiro rail riser kit and a khiro hardware kit. them play with wedging/bushing combos. You want about 7-15 degree wedging up front super loose and 12-15 degree dewedge in the back super stiff. Also youll only use a small fraction of what you bought so you can use the rest to tune other setups.

[mathico]

So, I was taking a break from solo-learning sessions, and was walking with some friends to class, and while going really slow, and really not wanting to push every two seconds, I was sort of tic-tac-ing to try and maintain speed, and low and behold, I realized I could use my arms and hips to continue to propel myself! I dont look anything like the sweet videos out there; alot less carving and alot more arm movement, but I just about squeeled like a girl, haha. I'm onto something!

I think I can feel the lack of feedback from my bushings, especially having tried my friend's board... Will better bushings make my efforts more efficient? Because right now, it takes alot of effort to keep myself moving, but I was able to do it, and even accelerate a little, with some focus!

Anyway, this is really exciting for me, haha, thanks for all your advice. This thread is far from dead though, Im sure, as when I get stumped over the next few days, I'll be back for those willing to impart their wisdom on me

[vertigonoirxvii]

So, I was taking a break from solo-learning sessions, and was walking with some friends to class, and while going really slow, and really not wanting to push every two seconds, I was sort of tic-tac-ing to try and maintain speed, and low and behold, I realized I could use my arms and hips to continue to propel myself! I dont look anything like the sweet videos out there; alot less carving and alot more arm movement, but I just about squeeled like a girl, haha. I'm onto something!

I think I can feel the lack of feedback from my bushings, especially having tried my friend's board... Will better bushings make my efforts more efficient? Because right now, it takes alot of effort to keep myself moving, but I was able to do it, and even accelerate a little, with some focus!

Anyway, this is really exciting for me, haha, thanks for all your advice. This thread is far from dead though, Im sure, as when I get stumped over the next few days, I'll be back for those willing to impart their wisdom on me

tic-tac-ing is a good place to start. wenever i try to describe pumping i often come back to think of it as tic-tac-ing. the two are very similar, except with pumping the front wheels stay on the ground, the upper body motions are somewhat reminiscent of each other.

if your setup did come with wedged risers just take off the rear truck and reassemble with the narrow end of the wedge towards the middle of the board. that will (or should help a lot)

but yea once again...bushings, bushings, bushings...also if you checked out the videos from paved wave, try to copy the motions. that really helped me find out what grooves and motions worked best for me. a lot of it is practice of course too.

[Jorelle]

I learned the basic movement on a 46" board. Confirmed I was doing it right on my friends Bustin Strike with JimZ bushings. I'm itching to actually try a pumping set-up and see how fast I can go. Think about pushing down each turn. T'was what helped me.

[vertigonoirxvii]

jorelle's idea of pushing down each turn is another good technique. but i would go farther and say that a better illustration of this technique is kinda like throwing your body weight to the opposite rail as you're about to leave the apex of the carve.

in my opinion though, this technique is best for when you're already pumping and grooving at a good speed/pace. it helps give you a different groove as well as giving the foot you power with a bit of rest.

jorelle, I HIGHLY suggest you try a pumping specific or something close...the difference in efficiency is literally amazing.

[Jorelle]

jorelle's idea of pushing down each turn is another good technique. but i would go farther and say that a better illustration of this technique is kinda like throwing your body weight to the opposite rail as you're about to leave the apex of the carve.

in my opinion though, this technique is best for when you're already pumping and grooving at a good speed/pace. it helps give you a different groove as well as giving the foot you power with a bit of rest.

jorelle, I HIGHLY suggest you try a pumping specific or something close...the difference in efficiency is literally amazing.

You think a 26" mini will do? It's just waiting to be set up. I was planning to buy some bennetts and a tracker rts but they don't sell rts on its own here so I'd be using double bennetts.

[Midway]

I stand by my earlier statement.

Get better wheels *cough* flashbacks *cough*

The smaller they are, the faster they accelerate.

[vertigonoirxvii]

You think a 26" mini will do? It's just waiting to be set up. I was planning to buy some bennetts and a tracker rts but they don't sell rts on its own here so I'd be using double bennetts.

while a board that small can pump with the bennett/rts combo, its not ideal. True LDP board are around 35-40in long with a 25-28in wheelbase. But since we are only talking about pumping in general, and not distance treks, it should work out fine and be a fun little surfy pump machine for small flat areas where a bigger board would feel cramped. For the exact situation I just mentioned, I actually got Fatboy to make me a slalom board. and when taken out of context, a slalom board pumps really well and is fun in smaller areas and sidewalks.

either way you should just try it out and most of all just have fun with it, pumping shouldn't be a struggle, but it always is for beginners. but after all that work and effort, it becomes magical when everything just clicks and kicking becomes a thing of the past. (at least until you get tired or uphills come around)

[Jorelle]

while a board that small can pump with the bennett/rts combo, its not ideal. True LDP board are around 35-40in long with a 25-28in wheelbase. But since we are only talking about pumping in general, and not distance treks, it should work out fine and be a fun little surfy pump machine for small flat areas where a bigger board would feel cramped. For the exact situation I just mentioned, I actually got Fatboy to make me a slalom board. and when taken out of context, a slalom board pumps really well and is fun in smaller areas and sidewalks.

either way you should just try it out and most of all just have fun with it, pumping shouldn't be a struggle, but it always is for beginners. but after all that work and effort, it becomes magical when everything just clicks and kicking becomes a thing of the past. (at least until you get tired or uphills come around)

Haha yeah thanks. I plan to use the mini just for getting around whilst hanging out with my friends that don't board (walking is such a pain!). Calgary is too hilly to really be LDP'ing abouts and the flat places are far away from me But I'm going to try and get a single Bennett Truck and a trick deck truck and see how that works.

Sorry for hijacking the thread a little!

[kraffft]

Gesmer's site (most comprehensive pumping resource):

www.pavedwave.org

Get some angled risers (wedges), and try out some different pivot angles with your trucks. The standard LDP setup is ridiculously wedged in front and slightly dewedged in back.This is similar to (but more extreme than) DH setups, so if you find a reasonable balance you can bomb and pump that much easier with the same board.

Switch out that kingpin for one that's grade 8 steel. Especially with the indy style truck low grade kingpins will eventually snap from pumping.

Whatever bushings you use (even stock), lube them with a non-petroleum based oil or grease (like vegetable oil), put in flat washers instead of the cups, triple check for wheel bite, add risers, and you'll pump twice as easily.

YouTube - 4 wheels down

[mathico]

cant tell if that last comment was targeted at me, or my thief, haha

I'm done for the day. I got the motion down, the whole wide slalom/carving thing, especially at higher speeds where it is more fluid, but I just cannot figure out when to push in the turn to actually generate acceleration. I can prolong my decelleration, but cant actually gain speed or maintain it. But I'm through being frustrated for today, Im going to give it a break, and try again tomorrow, with some truck tweaks most likely