Insect Dragonfly Light LDP - Comments

[Camel]

Ok, this is a call for comments of sorts. I am working on a setup for Light LDP. I am sure at some point, JP will chime in (I hope he does.). Basically, I have been looking at the Insect Dragonfly. There have been a bunch of folks that have asked about LDP setups on this forum and most have been pushed off to Pavedwave.org. This is a great nplace for information. The best LDP setups have been detailed there. What I am looking to do is put together a combo that is readily accessible at local shops out of easily obtainable parts. No offense to the Roe's, Galac's, Subsonics, LBL's, etc... I am just trying to make LDP a viable local shop board (as well as to put together a combo for the Stoked guys). The idea is to have a deck that is an extremely capable pumper that won't get you too tired doing trips less than 20 miles. Most of JP's cases are at the extreme end of the spectrum, I mean really, how many of us are going to lay down 50 miles or more in a single day?

So here is the skinny on the Dragonfly and others for comparison:

Dragonfly
Length: 36" (91.5cm)
Width: 8.5" (21.6cm)
Form: Camber/Concave (Low/Medium and slightly forward of center)
Wheelbase (inner hole to inner hole): 27.5" (70.0cm)
Construction: V-Lam Bamboo Core + Multiaxial Fiberglass

2007 Roe Mermaid
Length: 39"
Width: 9.75"
Camber: Low
WheelBase:28.5 and 29.5
Construction: Baltic Birch / Carbon Fiber

LBL Walkabout
Length: 41.5"
Width: 9.75"
Camber: Slight and forward of center.
Wheelbase: 27.5, 28.5, 29.5"
Construction: glass, birch, and carbon-fiber

Subsonic Pulse
Length: 40
Width, front: 9.75
Width, rear: 9.25
Concave: 0.25
Wheelbase: 27, 28.25, 29.50, 30.75
Construction: Carbon Fiber and Fiberglass bottom, Triax fiberglass top

So looking at these specs, the Dragonfly seems to come in on the short side of LDP. Exactly where you would want it for pumping a commuting distance of about 5-10 miles. Lots of acceleration from a shorter chassis like this, but a little less in the "gears" for top end. The only other detriment that I see is the 8.75 width. It has the right shape, but you would definitely need to run a 5.0 instead of a 6.0 Bennett in the front and a 139mm RT-S in the back. I figure 70mm ZigZags for quick acceleration and awesome grip. Lemons up front, Limes in the back for a standard setup.

So there it is. Lets have a discussion and vet this idea a bit.

Just for good measure and research citation:
RoeRacing Slalom Skateboards
LongboardLarry - Custom Hand made longboard skateboards
Galac Landsurfing
Insect Skateboards

Chadd

[PuppY_K1ck3R]

I too am trying to put together an LDP board. Right now insect mosquito 38" is on order. But im unsure about what trucks i should go with.
I would like to use trucks such as chargers or paris. Because i want a cruising / ldp / carver. anyone else have any ideas?

[trubac]

I too am trying to put together an LDP board. Right now insect mosquito 38" is on order. But im unsure about what trucks i should go with.
I would like to use trucks such as chargers or paris. Because i want a cruising / ldp / carver. anyone else have any ideas?

Charger in 9" should be fine ... but for real LPD Bennetts 6" ...

[IIGQ4U]

I too am trying to put together an LDP board. Right now insect mosquito 38" is on order. But im unsure about what trucks i should go with.
I would like to use trucks such as chargers or paris. Because i want a cruising / ldp / carver. anyone else have any ideas?

Hi,

The Paris trucks will not work for the Mosquito. The Mosquito I believe only uses old school mounting holes and the Paris only has new school mounts. RII baseplates will work with Paris hangers.

[IIGQ4U]

Charger in 9" should be fine ... but for real LPD Bennetts 6" ...

With Tracker rears right?

[samhell]

For LDP, Bennett 5.0/RTS 129mm or 4.3/RTS 106mm is ideal.
9" is a lot of truck for pumping... Narrower trucks are quicker and
easier to pump and keep the wheelbite issue down when using large wheels...

[trubac]

For LDP, Bennett 5.0/RTS 129mm or 4.3/RTS 106mm is ideal.
9" is a lot of truck for pumping... Narrower trucks are quicker and
easier to pump and keep the wheelbite issue down when using large wheels...

i said 6.0 'cause i'm not sure at all that 5.0 fit a mosquito ....

[Camel]

You wouldn't want to LDP a mosquito. The Dragonfly is the one I was looking to play with. Full nose and such. The Mosquito is a Dervish style deck.

[IIGQ4U]

You wouldn't want to LDP a mosquito. The Dragonfly is the one I was looking to play with. Full nose and such. The Mosquito is a Dervish style deck.

Yeah, I just want to be able to pump it a bit... A mile or so. I picked up the black Bear trucks so this board should handle nicely.

[Camel]

Sounds pretty cool. David over a Stoked is testing out this one currently. Pretty sweet little setup.


Flickr: chaddhall's Photostream

Black Bennetts and yellow Zags look hot...

[Brute379]

I'm interested to hear your comments on the Dfly as well. The wheelbase looks good,
My present pumping setup only has a wb of 24" and I find it too short for longer rides.

I just got in from a 12mile session and I'm a little whooped right now.

[*Gnar_Dog*]

One of the new Dragonflys would probably work well, as they just added concave to the mold. Bennett's are awesome trucks for carving/pumping and if you throw in some +10/-10 wedging, you'd be set! I vote yes on the Dragonfly.

[pavedwave]

Most of JP's cases are at the extreme end of the spectrum, I mean really, how many of us are going to lay down 50 miles or more in a single day?

I really don't think the board will dictate huge distance, as much as your body and conditioning. Even though our LDP events come across as somewhat 'extreme' it's really just a way of taking our average smooth, comfortable cruising cadence, then pushing the endurance envelope. The basic technique and pump stride is not extreme, whether you're going just a few miles, or a few hundred.

The wheelbase does however make a big difference in determining what your max cruising speed can be, what speed you feel most comfortable clipping along. Plus, the width of the board makes a huge difference in how easy and efficiently you can conduct power to the trucks, with as much as a flick of the ankles, and at the same time you can stiffen up your ankles and start throwing all your weight into it -- all on the same board. That's the idea behind making LDP boards wider, and with bigger wheelbase options.

[lo-rez]

Sounds pretty cool. David over a Stoked is testing out this one currently. Pretty sweet little setup.

So Camel, that looks like a Bennet 5.0 with orange cone and barrel, assuming another orange or a white barrel on top and... what? Tracker RTS in back? And it doesn't look too high, so I'm guessing a single shock wedge front and back? I actually have the 6.0 on my Dragonfly, and like someone mentioned, that's a lot of truck. I'm thinking I need to get the narrower one. These are the regular Zags, right? Not the 75mm?

Portability-wise, I can vouch for this setup. A bunch of the guys played with it at a recent garage session here and seemed to enjoy it. From what I've ridden so far, you really can't beat these Insect decks for sheer toughness, considering how tidy they are. I mean, 9 or 11 plys of stuff may be great for some things, but if you're constantly throwing your board around on public transportation (like I do) the heavier decks get kind of tedious And most of the other v-lam bamboo boards I've looked at start looking pretty spongy after a couple of bails.

Thanks very much for posting this.

[Edit] And Mr Wave (above) is right about the deck width. I do notice the width of the deck in terms of foot placement -- but hey, it's a pretty elegant compromise.

[Camel]

*Compromise being the key word here.

Like I said, this is not for the heavyweights of the LDP world. I am still keeping my Mermaid for my daily workout and ultimately it is a better deck to get the job done. But, that being said, the DragonFly is more accessible to the masses from a shop "point of sale" standpoint. I just wish I could put it on the copier and enlarge it by 30% or so. LOL!

James (Silvertush/Pavedwave/JP) makes awesome points about wheelbase and width. I agree with the assessments since he taught me most of what I know about LDP. (Hasn't he done that for everyone?)

The layout on that DragonFly is a Bennett 5.0 front, 139mm RT-S rear, orange/orange/orange (in the pic, now it is orange/white/blue) in the front, blue in the RT-S rear. Setup for David at Stoked who is 150 lbs. I gave him the details, he put it together out of his warehouse stock and started testing. The wedge setup is a 1/4 flat rise with a 15 degree wedge rail on the front. 1/8th flat rise on the back with a 10 degree de-wedge on the back.

David is having a good time learning about all this stuff. Being a young guy, he wasn't involved in slalom. So a lot of this wedging and pumping technique is new for him.

Truthfully, I want to try out a Loaded LDP along the lines of the "UnLoaded" that JP has on his site. The tightly wound spring that is "Flex 1" could be just the thing for me. I started doing the pumping thing on the Dervish, I still enjoy a fun flexy board on a daily basis.

[lo-rez]

The layout on that DragonFly is a Bennett 5.0 front, 139mm RT-S rear, orange/orange/orange (in the pic, now it is orange/white/blue) in the front, blue in the RT-S rear. Setup for David at Stoked who is 150 lbs. I gave him the details, he put it together out of his warehouse stock and started testing. The wedge setup is a 1/4 flat rise with a 15 degree wedge rail on the front. 1/8th flat rise on the back with a 10 degree de-wedge on the back.

So I put the 5.0 and a Tracker RT-S on (as opposed to a 6.0 and a Randal 150). Much better. I noticed that it's particularly important to get the rear dead enough (but not TOO dead). This setup seems much more responsive to small adjustments than the wider one was.

I have a general (and probably just plain n00bish) question though about James' barrel/barrel/cone setup on the Bennets. It may be that I'm just over-tightening the kingpin -- but that's weird because it always takes a good deal of muscle just to fit that combination on.

Once I step on the board, no matter which duro combination I'm using, the joint between the cone and the bottom barrel "pops" and suddenly the bushings stretch to the point where they're only connected on 1 side instead of the entire surface, effectively making the whole setup VERY "loosey goosey". I can actually feel it when it "pops".

I actually tore some ligaments in my pusher calf muscle once when this happened. Think of the worst charlie horse you ever had and then cube it. Owie. Out of sheer terror, I've resorted to running two barrels (no cone) on top of an inverted cup washer (to make up for that extra little Bennet space on the bottom).

What the heck am I doing wrong? Is it just assumed that you modify the cone? (Like cut it down or something?)

I pretty much skate alone so I don't have anyone to bump this off. Thanks for any insight you might have.

[Camel]

JP answered the question over in the other place. [pavedwave.org]

I added a little bit of fabricating info to his response.

That pretty much covered it.

C

[dmccoach]

RE: "popping bushings..." First, I have found that overtightening can lead to this - generally, if the bushings are excessively bulging when unloaded, the nut is too tight and it may "give" somewhere when under stress - if it needs to be stiffer, go to a higher duro, right?

Otherwise, buy some of this stuff: http://www.compurail.net/PriceLists/...0Pricelist.pdf

It is generally called a cyanacrolate instant glue (or CA Glue) - You want the gap filling stuff - you can get this stuff pretty much at any Hobby store like Hobbytown, etc. But be sure it is either the "thick" or "gap filling" CA (you will see this stuff is a bit pricey, like $12 bucks a bottle).

Take your separate bushings, smear a liberal amount of this stuff on each surface to be joined, and set it aside to dry (like one hour to fully cure) - or spend a few extra bucks for the "flash cure" stuff which is a clear, water-like substance in a small spray bottle made to "flash" the CA which instantly turns the glue into a cement..

That's it - they wont't pop or come apart - And, BTW for the Bennetts I like to use combined bushings (experiment w/different duro's cemented together) but they are:

For the bottom (board side): the "large cone" (aluminum-washer) (Khiro) plus a barrel (cut in half - I just use a real sharp razor for a good level cut) and CA'd together

For the top: A single cone w/aluminum or plastic washer insert

This combination also eliminates the Bennett cup washers ..... Have fun!

Dan

So I put the 5.0 and a Tracker RT-S on (as opposed to a 6.0 and a Randal 150). Much better. I noticed that it's particularly important to get the rear dead enough (but not TOO dead). This setup seems much more responsive to small adjustments than the wider one was.

I have a general (and probably just plain n00bish) question though about James' barrel/barrel/cone setup on the Bennets. It may be that I'm just over-tightening the kingpin -- but that's weird because it always takes a good deal of muscle just to fit that combination on.

Once I step on the board, no matter which duro combination I'm using, the joint between the cone and the bottom barrel "pops" and suddenly the bushings stretch to the point where they're only connected on 1 side instead of the entire surface, effectively making the whole setup VERY "loosey goosey". I can actually feel it when it "pops".

I actually tore some ligaments in my pusher calf muscle once when this happened. Think of the worst charlie horse you ever had and then cube it. Owie. Out of sheer terror, I've resorted to running two barrels (no cone) on top of an inverted cup washer (to make up for that extra little Bennet space on the bottom).

What the heck am I doing wrong? Is it just assumed that you modify the cone? (Like cut it down or something?)

I pretty much skate alone so I don't have anyone to bump this off. Thanks for any insight you might have.

[kenofseattle]

Sounds pretty cool. David over a Stoked is testing out this one currently. Pretty sweet little setup.


Flickr: chaddhall's Photostream

Black Bennetts and yellow Zags look hot...

Sweet as candy. This is one of those setups where you see it and you have to ride it. Those screws are all kinds of different lengths!

[lo-rez]

Sweet as candy. This is one of those setups where you see it and you have to ride it. Those screws are all kinds of different lengths!

Hah! Ken you rode my dragonfly with the wider setup at that garage session you were kind enough to invite me to

Camel and Dan, thanks SO much for the details on the bushing hacks. I'm going to rush out and buy some of that magic goop.