ProtoType All-Terrain Board

[BluegrassSurfer]

ProtoType2 Test: All Terrain Board,...

YouTube - ProtoType II Test: All Terrain Board,...

First Vid -- (+ music)
Second Vid -- (no music and a little shorter)

This is my free/soul rider offering to ATB and gravity sports.� I am providing this design/concept to anybody and all to use.� I have posted this to my photo blog, vimeo, Youtube and multiple forums.� Any attempt to patent will be challenged.

Designed, built and tested by W.A. Wurts in Princeton, KY, USA.

This is ProtoType2
Designed and built: March-April 2008
Tested:� April 5, 2008

Original design created: 2006

ProtoType1
Designed, built and tested: June 2007

This beastie is the design-concept you need for an all-terrain luge/skeleton.� Stable steering and no speed wobble.

[BDirthead]

Nice design Bluegrass! I like have you've combined elements of the Outback and traditional ATB, and came up with a smooth street carver. A have a question, can you power-slide on this board? I know on the Outback, power-sliding was difficult because of the single rear wheel. I'm sure that's why they added the rear friction brake design. Speed control and safety are important issues. So I'm curious, if there's a stop sign at the end of your road, what do you do?

[sk8norcal]

haven't there been other boards like this?


how about riding it backwards...?
like 'on shore board'...

[RipTide]

When you said all terrain, I was hoping to see the rider run it through that rocky ditch!

[endzone_bob]

Props and rep for releasing the design to the 'community'.

[BluegrassSurfer]

haven't there been other boards like this?


how about riding it backwards...?
like 'on shore board'...

I did extensive searching about 3-wheelers and never saw anything like it. Single front wheel with 2 rear truck wheels is a totally different ride.

The combination of two front wheels with channel truck steering/suspension and a rear gyroscopic wheel that leans with the deck into turns is unique as far as I can tell.

The closest is the Outback with the rear wheel fixed to the entire frame at a 90-degree angle to the ground and cantilever steering -- nothing similar there.

Single wheel front wheels (with 2 rear) are either fixed or caster steering -- not particular effective for high-G leans at speed.

I have developed many original and relatively simple research concepts in my professional field. My favorite first comments is, "Somebody must have done that." To which, I have developed the BgS corollary:
"Somebody has to be first."

If you know of a design that is the same please let us see it.

[ATG-ATB]

A have a question, can you power-slide on this board? I know on the Outback, power-sliding was difficult because of the single rear wheel

I was thinking this too, a fixed rear axle cries more grip, but you've only got one tyre. Have you tried fitting a regular atb hub to ur frame? How much does it weigh?

[BluegrassSurfer]

Nice design Bluegrass! I like have you've combined elements of the Outback and traditional ATB, and came up with a smooth street carver. A have a question, can you power-slide on this board? I know on the Outback, power-sliding was difficult because of the single rear wheel. I'm sure that's why they added the rear friction brake design. Speed control and safety are important issues. So I'm curious, if there's a stop sign at the end of your road, what do you do?

The gyroscopic effect of a large (12" bike or greater) rear wheel increases stability with speed. The wheel wants to maintain its position/angle relative to the ground.

The Outback rear wheel is permanently fixed at a 90-degree angle relative to the whole frame/ground. The wheels and frame assembly do not lean into the turns. This means the G-force vectors are pushing at the board from the side (perpendicularly). So when you attempt a power slide, the board wants to flip. Obviously this is not good for ultra-tight high-G carve or power sliding. Furthermore the deck is the only piece that leans into the turns. The deck rides above the plane of the axles, further de-stabilizing the board with a high center of gravity.

With a dual wheel channel truck steering system up front, the rear wheel (gyroscopic) leans with the deck into the turn. This keeps the G-force vectors more parallel to the rear wheel, making for excellent high G traction. The deck is level with or below the axles. Dual front wheels keeps high traction in the front of the board for high speed, high-G turns. Traction on the beast is outstanding.

I'm uncomfortable with power slides, so I carve speed off into the flats -- I pick long enough runs. This is a speed board, so like luges, it will not stop quickly at very high speeds. For open road, I will probably incorporate some type of foot operated brake system.

Technically it should be possible to drift the rear wheel for some braking. If you can power slide a BMX bike with 16" wheels, you should be able to power slide this concept. I haven't done it (on anything ever) so I can't say.

Ultimately, I will probably develop this design concept for a luge/skeleton type variant with a disk or caliper braking system. Its pricipal advantages are stability at high speeds and very good traction for high-G carving in the 20-30 mph range, Once you hit 30 mph, you have to pick your line and hold it, with gentler arcs for turning.

The video is just proof of the first day test rides. This concept has several potential applications. Many refinements are called for before taking it up to warp speed.

Final Edit (hopefully):
My guess is that powersliding in the dirt (off-road) shouldn't be a problem.

[ATG-ATB]

What egg shocks are you using in your trucks? The quick glimpses of the board by itself in your vids look like you don't have any! If so, I admire the speeds you're going at! Testament to either your skills or your design!

What intrigues me is the potential for a higher top speed on a mountainboard, something a downhiller like me would love to have! I've been >40mph but it's very scary, even on a super stiff NoSno. If you're rocking shockless channels at 30mph I think you're on to something that could have a profound impact on downhill racing...

[BluegrassSurfer]

What egg shocks are you using in your trucks? The quick glimpses of the board by itself in your vids look like you don't have any! If so, I admire the speeds you're going at! Testament to either your skills or your design!

What intrigues me is the potential for a higher top speed on a mountainboard, something a downhiller like me would love to have! I've been >40mph but it's very scary, even on a super stiff NoSno. If you're rocking shockless channels at 30mph I think you're on to something that could have a profound impact on downhill racing...

Click pause on the last frame in the vimeo version (higher res pictures). I used orange for this beast, I usually run yellow on my street carvers. The faster it goes, the more stable it gets, and the harder it gets to carve hard.

Oh hell I'll just post a pic of the off-road setup:



For highest resolution (and all the pictures) go to my photo blog and click on the picture:
Bluegrass Surf

[sk8norcal]

the outback IS the same basic idea...

I rode a friend's homemade 'onshore board', frontward and backward...
maybe I am the original inventor...

when ridden backward, the main problem I felt with the ^ board is that there is no RTC for the rear...

[BluegrassSurfer]

the outback IS the same basic idea...

I rode a friend's homemade 'onshore board', frontward and backward...
maybe I am the original inventor...

when ridden backward, the main problem I felt with the ^ board is that there is no RTC for the rear...

Sorry

Three large 10.5-12 inch wheels permanently fixed to a one-piece frame in vertical position:
Different

Deck leans but frame/wheels do not:
Different

Cantilever steering/turning:
Different

Exceptionally high center of gravity (because deck must be above frame and wheel axles):
Different

Tendency to flip and instability turning/sliding at higher speeds:
DIFFERENT

BTW I own an Outback (bought it because I was told it was a carver):
TOTALLY DIFFERENT RIDE / DESIGN (twitchy as hell) -- I keep it because of the cantilever steering novelty. Definitely not a carver in my book.

On Shore board single row of "small" wheels to rear:
no gyroscopic effect in rear or spring shocks up front. Therefore, no return to to center.

Reverse ON SHORE concept:
Different. Claim invention if you like.

[sk8norcal]

how about those pics i posted?

the first one is just like yours...


i saw outback racing at the red bull street luge big air...
seems to handle speed good...
Bdirthead was there....
I owned a knockoff for a short time...
yes, same basic idea...
all i am saying is your idea is not patentable... (but i am no attorney, and i think patents are a waste of time anyways...)

anyways, FWIW i sketched up the idea before, and many others probably did too...
good job on going through and making a prototype..

[BluegrassSurfer]

how about those pics i posted?

the first one is just like yours...


i saw outback racing at the red bull street luge big air...
seems to handle speed good...
Bdirthead was there....
I owned a knockoff for a short time...
yes, same basic idea...
all i am saying is your idea is not patentable... (but i am no attorney, and i think patents are a waste of time anyways...)

Please provide link to the picture you allude too...?

Only pictures I have seen that you posted are of the single frame, fixed wheels, 3-wheel OUTBACK concept. Nothing more. Therefore my design is unique and original.

I have a non-provisional patent application currently filed for another invention, using a patent attorney. Small changes are "patentable improvements." What I have presented here is a new/orignal design concept. You have shown us nothing that is marginally the same.

Please enumerate specifics that are identical in concept, performance and technology. Using similar parts does not constitute the same design.

If you can't demonstrate the same concept/principals I have presented, combined in a single (the same) board...I can assure the you the combination of channel trucks with leaning rear gyroscopic wheel is a "patentable concept"...I have chosen not to because I don't think I could recover the $10,000 patent costs in sales.

I have decided it would be more productive to let others play with the idea, use it, and modify as they so desire. I will challenge any company that might attempt to patent it.

Using your premise, MBS could not have patented their channel trucks (but they did) because they are the "same" as Seismic trucks. Carveboard could not sell their boards because they infringe on MBS channel truck design patent. Further debate with you would be unproductive...

[BluegrassSurfer]

anyways, FWIW i sketched up the idea before, and many others probably did too...
good job on going through and making a prototype..

I guess we will just have to accept your word (proof?) that your "sketch" was the "same." I believe attorneys refer to that as hearsay.

My work has been dated, witnessed and documented.

Edit:
Still no link to the pictures?

[sk8norcal]

you start to sound like one of those delusional inventors...

those pics i posted just scroll up...

i sketch up a lot of stuff,
i filed the three wheeler idea under the "been done before" category...

edit..

[BluegrassSurfer]

you start to sound like one of those delusional inventors...

those pics i posted just scroll up...

i sketch up a lot of stuff,
i filed the three wheeler idea under the "been done before" category...

edit..

I was looking for links. My bad.

If the rear fork does not pivot, you are correct -- assuming the board was designed and constructed more than 3 years ago.

I have heard this one many times, "Oh, I already had that idea but decided it wasn't anything special."

Delusional...?

[BluegrassSurfer]

I agree that the design you presented in the last picture is the same, provided the rear fork is fixed and not pivot.

I wouldn't want to use that fork for serious off-road jarring at high speed though.

I guarantee I could patent the rear fork assembly/design and sell it as a single, gyroscopic wheel truck system to adapt mountain boards to 3-wheelers. You'd be amazed what is patentable. Worth doing? I have absolutely no desire to do so.

[sk8norcal]

how about this one too?




there is also a moto 3 wheeler buttboard too... same deal..



FWIW, you are the first guy to throw up a video...
are u planning to go faster...?
or throw some speedboarder on it..

another idea is to dump the rubber frt wheels/straps and use urethane..
adding a handbrake to the back is always an option..

i remember someone was bombing on Onshoreboards... (never seen videos though)

also posted before, there was a tierney/skateboard combo that would be interesting to try...

[BluegrassSurfer]

how about this one too?




there is also a moto 3 wheeler buttboard too... same deal..

Those look like they are some variant of cantilever steering. Suggested by no tip angle. With no tip angle, channel trucks don't turn when you lean. Frame probably doesn't lean into turns in that case -- fixed wheel and frame assembly. Deck operated cantilever steering provides a very different set of forces on the board and feel (stiff side skipping on fast turns). I'm guessing the rear wheel doesn't provide much gyroscopic effect either, especially fixed at a 90 degree angle to the ground.

Would have to actually see the Buttboard to evaluate.

Edit:
Body Kart: fixed wheels/frame single unit also.