Not Carveboard carveboards

[Gomer]

Crossair hubs are really the same as the MBS hubs ...... but hard to tell if there is a difference because there are so many factors that differ...deck, trucks, hubs etc..

Adjustability is not a huge issue. To be able to adjust the spring strength, spring placement position and egg shocks is plenty for me

Makes sence to me.

What's a Trampa Dampa insert?.......not familiar with those inserts.

Carving is fun and, in the condition you described yourself, it sounds like a good fun-to-risk ratio sport for you. Too bad brakes are too distracting to the ride. It'd be nice not to have to hold the brake handle but have the brakes there to grab if you needed them.

I used to scrub excess speed on my 132 frameboard (no inserts and saw tooth tires) but when the going got fast my spot hard no curbs so I could slow in the grassy shoulders. Eventualy I got good enough to slide 180 to stop at speed but it took up two traffic lanes and you wouldn't want to do that near cars.

Patrick does know his stuff. He and Jason made the sport in the US and made it big in the UK. I just bring up the subject of who rides or not because of the mountainboard marketing theme that immitates the punk side of the skateboard "core/rad/lifestyle" marketing theme. I don't like it.

I don't think it makes any difference if the company owners ride or not. I do think it is a good idea to sponsor riders and events. Fred Walton could run MBS, Carveboard or GI and I wouldn't care as long as he made good boards at a decent price and supported the riders and the advancement of the sport.

[Gomer]

I don't know how it is the other way round but when I want something from the US I end up paying between $50-100 in shipping and taxes

That's robbery. I guess that helps pay for your "free" healthcare.

[Gomer]

so are the Brasilian carverboards made under licence or just a copy...
same factory out of china??

That would be interesting to know from the source.

I'm guessing a licence agreement or a franchise deal. I don't see Carveboard owners interested in the hassle of controling a business that far away in distance and culture. Although I don't see any Carveboard logos on those boards. The Carveboard site shows a board with yellow hubs but doesn't show or sell any parts of color.

I had forgotten about that video. Cool black and yellow trucks.

The trucks in the video (see frame 2.0) look like the Carveboard trucks on their web site.



MBS never made a cast aluminum truck. Their trucks were first cromoly steel plate and rod. Then they used forged aluminum alloy with steel rods inserted. The original forged bracket (there is no such thing as a "top" truck - bracket, hanger, axle) was later replaced with the current plastic bracket.

This is the Mongoose ATB product that is the same as the MBS frame boards.


And the Mongoose uniframe board similar to the MBS Grasshopper


This was the next generation forged aluminum hanger with two settings.


Can anyone spot a major difference in the geometry of the MBS trucks compared to the Carveboard truck?

[BluegrassSurfer]

I use the term dual-shock top truck (2 springs only) as used/specified by Patrick. He uses the term bottom truck. I say axle rather than bottom truck for clarity of discussions about axle lengths in general discussions (such as this forum).

Razors used steel dual-shock top and bottom trucks (15" axle). Several of their older boards used steel top and bottom trucks (axles).

I have several dual shock top trucks. They are compatible with old-style 18" MBS frameboard axles (bottom trucks). This is how I use old-style 18" MBS frameboard axles with a Gen II Razor deck.

[BluegrassSurfer]

MBS Evolution




Reactor (132 cm Frame board -- looks like quad shock with 3 spring positions)






Grasshopper (dual shock -- 1 spring position)





Razor (dual-shock trucks -- 1 spring position)





Blade (quad-shocks 3 spring positions)

All above with steel trucks




Sol 16 (Multishock -- 2 spring position)
Believe (not positive) this came out before the Razor and Blade
FEATURES:
• Twin-Tip Unibody Design
• 7 Ply horizontally laminated Maple Deck
• Eggshock™ suspension upgradable to 6 stiffness options
• Free Flex™ Bindings
• New Multi-Shock™ Trucks (6061 aluminum bracket/4130 cro-moly axles)
• MBS V3 Brake Compatible
• 8" Airliner tread (4-ply)
• Rubber shielded bearings
• 4-color bottom graphics
• Length: 116cm (46.4")
• Weight: 15.2 lbs (w/bindings)





Comp 16 (Multi-shock -- 2 spring positions)
FEATURES:
• Light, Aspen wood core
• Fiberglass composite outer structure
• Protective, PolyButylene Terephtalate (PBT) bottom layer
• Carbon fiber stringers for rigidity and "pop" on takeoffs
• 16" aluminum MultiShock™ trucks - offering two spring positions
• Eggshock™ suspension - upgradable to six stiffness options
• MBS MultiFlex™ binding for customized stance.
• "Snowboard like" 4 hole binding insert pattern.
• Adjustable stance width: 19.5"-22.5", rotation can span 45 degrees
• MBS Tri-Spoke nylon hubs
• 9" striker tread tires
• MBS V3 Brake System compatible
• 4-color photo bottom graphics
• Length: 126cm (50.4")
• Weight: 19.9 lbs (w/ MultiFlex™ bindings)





Comp 26 (Multi-shock -- 2 spring positions)
FEATURES:
• Light, Aspen wood core
• Fiberglass composite outer structure
• Protective, PolyButylene Terephtalate (PBT) bottom layer
• Carbon fiber stringers for rigidity and "pop" on takeoffs
• 16" aluminum MultiShock™ trucks - offering two spring positions
• Eggshock™ suspension - upgradable to six stiffness options
• MBS MultiFlex™ binding for customized stance.
• "Snowboard like" 4 hole binding insert pattern.
• Adjustable stance width: 19.5"-22.5", rotation can span 45 degrees
• MBS Tri-Spoke nylon hubs
• 9" striker tread tires
• MBS V3 Brake System compatible
• 4-color photo bottom graphics
• Length: 126cm (50.4")
• Weight: 19.9 lbs (w/ MultiFlex™ bindings)

[Gomer]

That 132 frame board with three spring settings was one of the many "test" products that didn't pan out. They didn't sell a lot of those. The Mongoose type became the standard and the highest seller until the unibody boards.

Never Summer made the Razor and Blade decks. I think they had three settings as was popular at the time. Three setting were later scrubed until Hyline came out with their V12, I think. The V12 was one of the best boards there ever was.

"Quad shock" was the term when the four (quad) top hat locations became the standard. You could put four inserts in four springs but there were only two settings - inside and outside.

My Sol16, Comp16 and Comp26 all have two spring setting positions.

[BluegrassSurfer]

Razors have 1 spring position only. I have 3 completes.

Patrick calls the 3 spring position trucks quad-shocks -- so that's what I call them. The Blade has quad-shocks. I own 2 completes.

Left out the early Grasshopper another steel dual-shock (1 spring position) model:

[oldnbroken]

so are the Brasilian carverboards made under licence or just a copy...
same factory out of china??

Seen this thing a while back.
Totally blatant copy in every way possible.
When I first saw it, it pissed me off.
The only difference I can see is that they have a nut at the end of the truck axles not cap screws.
Deck, truck castings, hubs, tires, truck mount bolts, back foot rubber stop.
Hey... the griptape pattern is different!

But I like Joana Prado..she's good!

[ATG-ATB]

Makes sence to me.
It'd be nice not to have to hold the brake handle but have the brakes there to grab if you needed them.

If you know the road you're on just tuck it in your pocket or under your belt. If the cable is long enough you can run it up your trouser leg and out of your sleeve. If you've got long sleeves you can let go of the handle without worrying about it dropping. Some sort of wristband would work too. The NoSno/Hope brakes have an additional wire running along the cable to stop it stretching/breaking if your arms flail or it snags on something. A brake doesn't have to be a bother.

[Gomer]

The only difference I can see is that they have a nut at the end of the truck axles not cap screws.

Hmm, I didn't notice that. I thought it looked like it had a wider track also. I looked at the Carveboard instructional video for assembling the wheel to compare.

Carveboard USA - Home of the Original Carveboards

The Brazilllian truck looks like it might be the old Carveboard truck. Something is definately different though. That axle (when I'm talking to Joe Gerlach we call it the "wheel retention module" but I'll call it a axle here when talking to those who aren't as in tune with the industry as I am) looks like it is cast into the hanger (Joe and I call it the hanger the "top truck opposing wheel retention module encasement").

Partick uses the "top truck/bottom" truck description from the patent application specification. I have been talking about mountainboard design with many people over a 12 years span and the terms we have always used is bracket, hanger and axle.

The Brazillian board being so close to the Caveboard components is what makes me think Carveboard is involved. If they were going to rip off Carveboard, why (or how) would they make something identical to the original. If you going to set up a whole production and distribution system why not change a little something here and there?

There was another Brazillian board that was a very close rip off of Carveboards but I think it was different from the one in the video NorCal posted.

Here is the Carveboard patent -
Skateboard - Google Patent Search

The Carveboard patent term ran out in 2003. Anyone can make them now and call them carveboards.

Yes. I can hardly pay attention to anything else when Joana in in the frame.

[BluegrassSurfer]

The 1997 MBS Meltdown Series frame boards:

132 - 183 cm long
38-46 cm axle widths (15" - 18")
Truck systems were dual-shock channel (1 spring position).

I have the 1997 Meltdown Series Catalog (included with one of my purchases). I own a pair of the Meltdown Series steel 18" dual-shock axles (compatible with the Razor dual-shock top trucks).

There was a limited edition 18" quad-shock truck (3 spring positions, no more than 4 pairs made). Patrick uses a set of 18" quads on his racing Blade.

[Gomer]

If you know the road you're on just tuck it in your pocket or under your belt.

A long time ago the riders used to velcro the handle to their pants.

[BluegrassSurfer]

My Gen I Razor customized with MBS 16" quad-shock trucks and 8-3.00-4 smooth tires in the forefront. My Blades, Rennegade (with 8-3.00-4s) and FS dirtsurfer in background. Gen II Razor with 18" Meltdown Series axles and 8-3.00-4s not in picture.




My late model Comp 16 deck with limited edition 20" Matrix Lites (1 spring position -- outside setting) and 8-3.00-4s.

[Gomer]

My late model Comp 16 deck with limited edition 20" Matrix Lites (1 spring position -- outside setting) and 8-3.00-4s.

I zoomed in on that picture to see the four adjusting screw holes (per truck) in each end of the deck. Two holes for outside and two for the inside position.

Is there no way to add a nut to the plastic bracket and have and inside adjustable position?

Is there something about the bracket or hanger that would not accept a top hat in the inside position? Is there a bore in the bottom of the hanger to accept the screw that holds the bottom top hat?



Maybe one of these could be mounted throught the available hole from the underside of the bracket.

[BluegrassSurfer]

Is there something about the bracket or hanger that would not accept a top hat in the inside position? Is there a bore in the bottom of the hanger to accept the screw that holds the bottom top hat?

Hanger/bottom truck has only one countersunk hole (each side) for tophat screw. Bottom truck design will not allow (inside) second hole without jeapardizing truck integrity.

[BluegrassSurfer]

My Razors



Stock Gen II Razor with 15" axles and airliner tires (left).
Modified Gen II Razor with 18" Meltdown Series MBS frameboard dual-shock axle and 8-3.00-4 smooth tires (right).



Modified Gen I Razor with 16" quad-shock trucks and 8-3.00-4 smooth tires (left).
Modified Gen II Razor with 18" Meltdown Series MBS frameboard dual-shock axle and 8-3.00-4 smooth tires (right).

[Gomer]

This is the piece.

I see four counter sunk bores in the hanger. Your Matrix hangers don't have four counter sunk bores? How would adding two more counter sunk bores to your hanger weaken it?

[BluegrassSurfer]

Looks like that would work for the older top truck/brackets.

The real problem for the 20s is 2 holes total in the hanger/bottom truck (can't be safely drilled).

Now at $10 per bracket/top truck, for future cusomizing with 18" Matrix Wides, it will be just as easy (easier) to buy the top trucks.

Edit: The 20s make better speedboard trucks anyway.

[BluegrassSurfer]

I see four counter sunk bores in the hanger. Your Matrix hangers don't have four counter sunk bores? How would adding two more counter sunk bores to your hanger weaken it?

Nope only 2. The bottom truck is not solid like the ones in your image. The special edition 20s have 2 open spaces/lengthwise slots in the middle. They were designed for a paraplegic and are intended for street use only -- found that out when I hit a curb and bent the front axle on Memorial Day.

[Gomer]

The bottom truck is not solid like the ones in your image. The special edition 20s have 2 open spaces/lengthwise slots in the middle.

Hmmm, I wonder why they routed the bottom of the hanger? Seems like that the extra material would be needed with that wide of an axle.

Looks like the new Matrix hangers with the 18" axles and the threaded insert added to the bracket installed on your late model Comp 16 deck is what's going to get you an adjustable inside spring setting on a wide axle. MBS ought to have threaded inserts they could give you or you can track back the properties of the photo I posted to order through McMasters Carr.