"Carveboards" are mountainboards with 8-3.00-4 smooth tires (aka: riding mower tires), and no footstraps.
Maybe MBS thinks a reasonable percentage of their large, loyal customer/market base might want something a little different, with parts that are interchangeable with their other ATB products. One stop shopping.
As a bonus, they can pick up some of the "carveboard" market.
So, a skate-style hangar using skate-style bushings, but on a channel-style baseplate. Maybe the hangar has pivot pins on the front & back of the bushing seat that mate with the baseplate.. otherwise, what's the point?
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Last edited by Barf; 06-24-2009 at 04:20 PM..
Reason: pic wouldn't link
"Carveboards" are mountainboards with 8-3.00-4 smooth tires (aka: riding mower tires), and no footstraps.
Actualy, Carveboards are not mountainboards. They were not designed to be ridden off-road as was the intention of mountainboards. They were designed for on-road carving.
In fact, when the Carveboard first came to market some people made the mistake of assuming that they were mountainboards just beacause they have channel trucks. Some of those people then tried to sue Carveboard because they hurt themselves trying to use a board for a use it was not designed for and could not handle.
The devices that keep your feet on the board are called "bindings".
MBS's customer base may be loyal but the market for mountainboards can hardly be called "large" by any measure. I think it is an effort to find other customers within the growing longboard market to support their mountainboard business that, after 12 years still hasn't suceeded on a snowboard level as that they hoped.
They continue to market to the "rad punk" segment of the skateboard/snowboard market. That has been a demostrated failure because of the "gang" mentality of those sports market. A little kid who takes up skateboarding so he can be a creative rebel like all his friends is not going to risk alienation from the group to ride a board that is not excepted by the group. Why, that would be like wearing pants of the outdated tightness.
A snow bunny is not going to spend thousands of dollars and clothees and equipment to practice a sport that gets you all dirty and hurts when you fall. And yet the largest mountainboard support groups, One-Five and Dirt Star Army show rider in videos not wearing helnmets.
The largest road block to sucess for mountainboard is their limited market appeal, punk image, lack of places to ride and high potential for injury.
I don't get it. It looks like MBS would have learned with the Atom not to get into a market with some sort of wierd product that responds to a need that doesn't exist, doesn't create a new need and is sure to become the object of ridicule in an established market.
That is their Twin Pin truck. It was supposed to be what would replace the channel truck with responsiveness in between skate trucks and channel trucks, lighter weigth and less prone to speed wobble.
I think they were also supposed to be targeted towrd the kiteboard market. They would be good for kiteboard but I think they found that they were not as favored for boardercross and freestyle as channel trucks. Even Ground Industries realized elastomer steering resistance was not as good as a spring/elastomer combination and has modified their bracket to offer the option of springs with elastomer inserts.
It is called twun pin technology because their is a vertical king pin like a skate truck and a horizontal pivot point like a channel truck. The steering resistance is provided by elastomers in a collar on the hanger around the vertical king pin.
I have found several trucks that work on the same principle but have not located MBS' patent application drawing. They say they have "patent pending" which means they probably filed a provisional patent and chose to have the application hidden.
If a unique or design patent is applied for and awarded then the application information will be published by the USPTO. If they find there is not enough market interest to bother with getting a patent they'll just let the provisional patent expire.
The Atom was a complete failure and can be found on line by the thousands at very cheap prices.
I don't see how MBS maintains their "core" standing by offering some cheap, goofy looking longboards and a old school pool board. Why would anyone who knows anything about skateboards buy one from MBS? I guess these boards are for people who don't know anything about longboarding.
They have been trying for years to come up with a product to support their mountainboard business but just can't seem to get themselves past their mountainboard design rut to make a successful product.
Actualy, Carveboards are not mountainboards. They were not designed to be ridden off-road as was the intention of mountainboards. They were designed for on-road carving.
In fact, when the Carveboard first came to market some people made the mistake of assuming that they were mountainboards just beacause they have channel trucks. Some of those people then tried to sue Carveboard because they hurt themselves trying to use a board for a use it was not designed for and could not handle.
The devices that keep your feet on the board are called "bindings".
MBS's customer base may be loyal but the market for mountainboards can hardly be called "large" by any measure. I think it is an effort to find other customers within the growing longboard market to support their mountainboard business that, after 12 years still hasn't suceeded on a snowboard level as that they hoped.
They continue to market to the "rad punk" segment of the skateboard/snowboard market. That has been a demostrated failure because of the "gang" mentality of those sports market. A little kid who takes up skateboarding so he can be a creative rebel like all his friends is not going to risk alienation from the group to ride a board that is not excepted by the group. Why, that would be like wearing pants of the outdated tightness.
A snow bunny is not going to spend thousands of dollars and clothees and equipment to practice a sport that gets you all dirty and hurts when you fall. And yet the largest mountainboard support groups, One-Five and Dirt Star Army show rider in videos not wearing helnmets.
The largest road block to sucess for mountainboard is their limited market appeal, punk image, lack of places to ride and high potential for injury.
I don't get it. It looks like MBS would have learned with the Atom not to get into a market with some sort of wierd product that responds to a need that doesn't exist, doesn't create a new need and is sure to become the object of ridicule in an established market.
I won't respond to the absurdities of most of your "arguments." Foot straps, bindings, who gives a ####. Off-road is a niche. Hybrids are niche by definition.
The channel truck is a significant technology for carving. While I don't share others' enthusiasm for big air and stunts, some enjoy it.
Clearly you have no appreciation of street carving on channel trucks and pneumatic tires. NOTHING in the "skate" world comes close to the ride.
HIgh-G, surf-style street carving is not a spectators sport -- it's experiential. Most of us who participate in high-G street carve aren't looking for groupies or an audience. We do it for the "ride."
I won't respond to the absurdities of most of your "arguments." Foot straps, bindings, who gives a ####. Off-road is a niche. Hybrids are niche by definition.
The channel truck is a significant technology for carving. While I don't share others' enthusiasm for big air and stunts, some enjoy it.
Clearly you have no appreciation of street carving on channel trucks and pneumatic tires. NOTHING in the "skate" world comes close to the ride.
HIgh-G, surf-style street carving is not a spectators sport -- it's experiential. Most of us who participate in high-G street carve aren't looking for groupies or an audience. We do it for the "ride."
That's part of his point I think. You do it for the ride, but for those of us who don't know the "ride" then why would we buy one? It's tough to get someone to blindly spend several hundred dollars on something, that's what marketing is for.
That's part of his point I think. You do it for the ride, but for those of us who don't know the "ride" then why would we buy one? It's tough to get someone to blindly spend several hundred dollars on something, that's what marketing is for.
DaddyYo's point is to attack anything he can't do in his early to mid 50s. I'm 56, it's not stopping me.
I came to SF looking for a surf-like ride. I migrated here to hybrids because this little forum seemed to have the most potential. After discussing many hybrids and reading discussions of others, I decided I could put together something better than a carveboard, (customized) using old-style MBS mountainboard parts. I did.
People who surf or want that high-G carving feel on land will look for it. When those who have found it are asked, we pass on what we have found. I get asked several times a year how to put together the rigs I have described here and elsewhere. All who have asked and built love it. Like the original skateboard, surfboard, etc., it spreads by word of mouth.
If it becomes popular and stylish, the capitalists and profiteers jump in. Pros and contests were created to promote brand names and increase sales.
Fortunately for me, MBS has decided to make some new equipment that improves carving capabilities and incorporated a "few" of my suggestions. Maybe they think there is some long-term growth potential there.
If I want to be stylish, I'll get a "brand-name" skateboard, Element T, Patagonia shorts, and a stylin pair of Vans. If I want big air, I'll go skydiving. If I want to do backflips, gainers, etc, I'll take up gymnastics or platform diving.
If I want high-G surf carve on land, I'll ride channel trucks and pneumatic tires, "4-wheels down."
I won't respond to the absurdities of most of your "arguments."
And yet you do. I guess the only people who care what you call their product are the people who make the product. The manufacturers call their products bindings. You could call them "air assistance modules" for all I care. Just thought you might like to know the correct term.
I was "street carving", as you call it, on a MBS 132 frame board in 1996. How is "high G" carving any different than any other type of carving? What G level moves one from a low G to a high G carve? What instruments are you using to gauge the G forces in your carving?
EVERTHING in the skate world surpases anything you can do on your carveboard. How long have you skate/longboarded? How long have you been riding mountainboards?
There is nothing "experimental" about carveboarding. It has been around for as long as mountainboarding. Check the patent application dates.
You need to go to the Carveboard site and see what real surf style carving is about.
Who is the "us" that participates in your type of High-G street carving? As far as I know, it is just you. Do you have a club or a group of guys you ride with?
Maybe you could use your knowledge of the High-G street carving market to let us know an estimate how many people MBS is expecting to buy these boards.
I was doing what you are doing now in 1996. I could still do it today but it would be taking my skill level back 12 years. Have you learned to High-G power slide to 180 yet? How about 360 High-G turns up the fall line? No, too much like "stunts"?
So all you do is carve, I mean Hogh-G carve, down a road?
Thanks for coming to our little hybrid thread. I hope we have lived up to our "potential".
So you are saying that surfers and Carveboard riders "will" seek out your board? And then, like the spreading of a mystical religion, the word of the better High-G carveboard will start a ground swell of believers passing along the torch of a new sport equal to that of surfing, skateboarding and snowboarding.
Nike and K2 are just on the verge of stealing the stoke of the brotherhood of the High-G street carvers. Bastards! Look for High-G streecarving soft goods and lifestyle clothes in Abecrombe by fall.
You are going to be rich and famous and we can all say we knew you when.
What sort of contest to you imagine for High-G streetcarving? What would be the event - highest G's carved - then what?
Are you doing R&D work for MBS? Did you confer with Jason on their new product line?
If you has read any of the topics on this web site you would understand the value of a professionaly made and skateboarder designed quality board over some Chinese POS with an MBS logo.
You seem to be critical of mountainboarders who do "stunts". Or are you just hating on people who can do what a 56 year old man can't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluegrassSurfer
If I want high-G surf carve on land, I'll ride channel trucks and pneumatic tires, "4-wheels down."
I thought your better High-G streetcarver had three-wheels?
And yet you do. I guess the only people who care what you call their product are the people who make the product. The manufacturers call their products bindings. You could call them "air assistance modules" for all I care. Just thought you might like to know the correct term.
I was "street carving", as you call it, on a MBS 132 frame board in 1996. How is "high G" carving any different than any other type of carving? What G level moves one from a low G to a high G carve? What instruments are you using to gauge the G forces in your carving?
EVERTHING in the skate world surpases anything you can do on your carveboard. How long have you skate/longboarded? How long have you been riding mountainboards?
There is nothing "experimental" about carveboarding. It has been around for as long as mountainboarding. Check the patent application dates.
You need to go to the Carveboard site and see what real surf style carving is about.
Who is the "us" that participates in your type of High-G street carving? As far as I know, it is just you. Do you have a club or a group of guys you ride with?
Maybe you could use your knowledge of the High-G street carving market to let us know an estimate how many people MBS is expecting to buy these boards.
I responded to a few of the more outrageous arguments not "most."
Please enlighten us about the extent of the MBS market, and more specifically the "carvebaord" market. Near as I can tell, "Carveboard" holds a patent for their deck design/shape/graphic...truly innovative.
That's right you're a self-proclaimed patent expert. Sorry, I forgot.
"Experimental" -- WTF? I do customize and experiment with equipment/deck combinations though.
1996 let's see, with a little complex math, that was 13 years ago. A 132 cm frame board, certainly has its place in history...Definitely a performance surf-style carver...LMAO.
Can understand now, why you have such an in depth grasp of streetcarving.
You probably paddle out in 10-ft surf at least twice a week. I'll bet you are a real ripper.
"Us"...irrelevant...LMAO
High-G doesn't need explanation -- you can feel it in your quadriceps.
Tell you what. You're 1hr 45 min. away in Nashville. I'm 8 miles right off I-24. Cruise on up with your streetcarver(s).
I'll bet you'll blow my doors off ... LMAO
I'll probably be so impressed that I'll beg you to ride one of mine.
Come show me what ya got! Anytime ...
Oh yeah ... be sure to wear your Hollister T and Quicksilver board shorts.
Maybe we can surf the USPTO patent site after over a pint...
EDIT:
Thanks for permitting me to post on your Hybrid Forum.
could be good for low speed landboard kiting and freestyle.
Yeah, could be good for paved area kiteboarding. Free style or anything off-road it is hard to say. Not with those wheels and the deck may be short. They don't give the sizes.
Don't care for those tires MBS is offering, the contact patch looks too narrow and likely provide crappy grip. The 18" Matrix trucks look good, good price and if anything like past MBS gear, are gonna be well built.
Carveboards are just loads of fun as far as I'm concerned and I've been at it since 1998-99 (if I remember right).
Ridden and own/owned lots of hybrids and a good many traditional longboards and the Carveboard is a very special ride no matter what anyone who does not know, says.
The Bluegrassurfer combinations that I have tried are great carvers, I gotta get his three wheeler idea put together and tested soon.
I have never gotten the carve goodness of a rubber road slick with any urethane wheel, no matter how many times I have been told they are better.
I will say...I've seen a lots of very, very impressive and varied riding on longboards that go way past what Carveboards can do in several alternative directions.
Speed carving, bombing, freeride sliding, downhill speedboarding, luge, etc, etc.
I think Daddy Yo can ride his CarveStik pretty well in the skatepark, from what I know......attitude still sucks..... can never figure out why.
Hard carving on rubber wheels for me, everything else on urethane.
Most of these boards suck for land kiteboarding....Flexboardz is good, Dirtsurfer is good, a few others are pretty good but nothing compares to the water.
Channel trucks wobble badly while land kiteboarding at any real speed.
I'm surprised that Carveboard Sports is not going after MBS for ripping off on the Carveboard name. I don't really understand why MBS feels the need to do that, they have good products and could promote their brand of street carving by calling it a "street carver" or some other suitable name without so obviously crediting Carveboard Sports for creating the street carving market.
I don't think most moutainboarders care about street carving.
I don't think most street carvers care about mountain boarding.
Most longboard riders seem happy to stay within their peer group, which I guess is normal.
All riding is good riding
I'm surprised that Carveboard Sports is not going after MBS for ripping off on the Carveboard name. I don't really understand why MBS feels the need to do that, they have good products and could promote their brand of street carving by calling it a "street carver" or some other suitable name without so obviously crediting Carveboard Sports for creating the street carving market.
Maybe MBS feels like a little payback for the Carveboard's rip-off of the basic MBS channel truck design. I think they could have challenged the carveboard channel trucks (no significant design improvement). At the time I'm sure, they just didn't give a damn about the street carving market. With the right re-tooling, MBS has the superior channel trucks -- superior truck technology. I have communicated with Patrick on several occasions regarding what would make a great street-carver truck. They are very close now.
My bitch here isn't that Carveboard is a poor product. They saw the surf-carver market and went for it. However, I see nothing inferior about the MBS new product relative to the carveboard. Actually the 18" axle could offer better performance. Agreed, the roadies will not make great carver tires, they need 8-3.00-4 smooth tires. The roadies might work better on wet roads.
I saw how MBS equipment could easily be tweaked to be top-notch surf carvers and made a few of my own. Mine are outstanding streetcarvers but could be better still -- suspect I will have to have decks custom made though.
Aside from being a royal dick, DaddyYo has been stalking me from/at other forums since last fall. Now he has called me out on riding abilities. I have offered him the opportunity to come up and ride my runs and blow me away with his superior skills on surf-style "streetcarvers". Anytime...
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnbroken
All riding is good riding
AMEN! Ride what you like.
Edit:
I think the MBS new roadies might make a good skatepark tire for MBs.
Ridden and own/owned lots of hybrids and a good many traditional longboards and the Carveboard is a very special ride no matter what anyone who does not know, says.
I agree and I didn't say the carving ability of carveboards was not unique.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldnbroken
I will say...I've seen a lots of very, very impressive and varied riding on longboards that go way past what Carveboards can do in several alternative directions.
That's what I said in response to BS' statement that his High-G streetcarver carveboard out performs anything a longboard can do. Interesting that he deleted that statement from his post.
Which board are bad for land kiteboarding? All mountainboard types? Is seems like land kiteboards use ATS trucks that can be tighter and less prone to wobbles. If I kiteboarded I think I would use the Revo trucks.
Carveboard can't go after MBS. MBS is not violating anything that Carveboard has a right to protect.
Carveboard abandoned their trademark several years ago. The trademark was for Carve board, two words and a specific logo. I doubt they could have registered the word carveboard just as MBS couldn't register the word mountainboard.
I doubt anyone knows or cares who created the street carving market. I agree though. I would like to see some of the street carving "pros" riding in street carving events and reviews of their boards by the many street carving riders on the many street carving web sites.
What are the disciplines within the street carving sport? Carving and what?
I agree that all riding is good. I just don't care for corney and pompus BS from BS.
Not Carveboard carveboards
I do customize and experiment with equipment/deck combinations though. 
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