First set of randals, Venoms don't fit all the way

**Fmunkey** · 06-30-2009 06:34 PM

So my first problem is that the stock kingpin isn't quite long enough, so I'm going to Lowes tomorrow to get some bigger ones.

The second issue is that on my LY switch gets wheel bite with my Durians (It doesnt seem this will be a problem for long) So I have to tighten my trucks down very tight until they are expanding horizontally. I don't know if this is normal, since I only have originals and a terrible set of old gullwings. But combined with the fact that the bushings don't fit perfectly into the seats of the hanger, I'm a little worried something isn't right. Nothing big since I can always switch back to the stock bushings, but I'm not sure if there is something i'm not doing. Also, the board stays somewhat tilted when I step off my board.

I have 3 sets of bushings now,
Venom Standards 90a
Randal stock clear red (Tall/short cone)
And I ordered I believe 85a Tall cone and short cone abec 11s. I may have gone softer, but I dont remember and theyre not here yet.

My bushing choices probably arent the best since I pretty much made them myself.

Thanks for helping with my problems!

**PhilFTW** · 07-02-2009 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Fmunkey

So my first problem is that the stock kingpin isn't quite long enough, so I'm going to Lowes tomorrow to get some bigger ones.

The second issue is that on my LY switch gets wheel bite with my Durians (It doesnt seem this will be a problem for long) So I have to tighten my trucks down very tight until they are expanding horizontally. I don't know if this is normal, since I only have originals and a terrible set of old gullwings. But combined with the fact that the bushings don't fit perfectly into the seats of the hanger, I'm a little worried something isn't right. Nothing big since I can always switch back to the stock bushings, but I'm not sure if there is something i'm not doing. Also, the board stays somewhat tilted when I step off my board.

I have 3 sets of bushings now,
Venom Standards 90a
Randal stock clear red (Tall/short cone)
And I ordered I believe 85a Tall cone and short cone abec 11s. I may have gone softer, but I dont remember and theyre not here yet.

My bushing choices probably arent the best since I pretty much made them myself.

Thanks for helping with my problems!

Are you using cup washers? That should help with a lot.

**hawaii808** · 07-02-2009 12:40 AM

risers
ftw

**RipTide** · 07-02-2009 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Fmunkey

So my first problem is that the stock kingpin isn't quite long enough, so I'm going to Lowes tomorrow to get some bigger ones.

The second issue is that on my LY switch gets wheel bite with my Durians (It doesnt seem this will be a problem for long) So I have to tighten my trucks down very tight until they are expanding horizontally. I don't know if this is normal, since I only have originals and a terrible set of old gullwings. But combined with the fact that the bushings don't fit perfectly into the seats of the hanger, I'm a little worried something isn't right. Nothing big since I can always switch back to the stock bushings, but I'm not sure if there is something i'm not doing. Also, the board stays somewhat tilted when I step off my board.

I have 3 sets of bushings now,
Venom Standards 90a
Randal stock clear red (Tall/short cone)
And I ordered I believe 85a Tall cone and short cone abec 11s. I may have gone softer, but I dont remember and theyre not here yet.

My bushing choices probably arent the best since I pretty much made them myself.

Thanks for helping with my problems!

Does Lowe's carry grade 8 kingpin bolts? You might want to try an automotive supply house instead.

**Bruce22** · 07-02-2009 01:19 AM

almost my setup... I had randal with 42 plates and never got wheelbite with durians..
I sanded my venoms barrels down to fit the seat and raised the board a quarter inch for leverage. Railbite used to be an issue but isnt anymore.... youre board my be leaning one way because your bushings arent broken in

**stridey** · 07-02-2009 05:26 AM

You need 2.75" grade 8 Bolts to fit two barrels on Randal 180s.

And thats why we give customers the option to choose a regular 2.5" Randal or a grade 8 2.75" as an option on checkout....Mind you that will only be handy for European riders....

Octane Sport Skateboards

**Bruce22** · 07-02-2009 05:31 AM

grade 8s are sick,
my whole bushing cup bent in hlf around it but the thing was unscrathed

**Fmunkey** · 07-02-2009 09:46 AM

I bought some grade 5s from lowes, since I had to go there anyway. My dad said I should probably get grade 8s, so I called randal and they said what I got would hold me over until I get new ones. So sometime in the next few days I'll be getting a grade 8 2.75" Most of my problems are solved now, just my getting a longer kingpin.

Though, what does a cup washer do different than a flat washer? I put larger flat washers on since the stock ones are very small, and these were the same size as the bushings.

Thanks again.

**SirKale** · 07-02-2009 10:36 AM

cup washers hold the bushings a little more and make it slightly more stable/hard to turn. If your cup washers are crappy and bend then obviously they failed in their job, but basically cup holds more of the thane and limits turning more then a flat. Although flat washers big enough to cover the whole bushing do feel alot better IMO then the small ones that dont quite fit.

**Bruce22** · 07-02-2009 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by SirKale

cup washers hold the bushings a little more and make it slightly more stable/hard to turn. If your cup washers are crappy and bend then obviously they failed in their job, but basically cup holds more of the thane and limits turning more then a flat. Although flat washers big enough to cover the whole bushing do feel alot better IMO then the small ones that dont quite fit.

I hit a curb at 30

**Griff223** · 07-02-2009 03:20 PM

so the higher the grade the better? like a grade 10 would be even better then grade 8?

**SirKale** · 07-02-2009 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bruce22

I hit a curb at 30

i could see where that would bend most washers flat or cupped. but sense it was impact and not use id say your washers werent at fault. but yea a grade 8 kingpin could pretty much hold up a house, they are some tough mofos.

there is no grade 10, 8 it the highest. maybe go with titanium if you need something harder, but that seems redundant.

**FlyingDutchman** · 07-06-2009 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Fmunkey

So my first problem is that the stock kingpin isn't quite long enough, so I'm going to Lowes tomorrow to get some bigger ones.

The second issue is that on my LY switch gets wheel bite with my Durians (It doesnt seem this will be a problem for long) So I have to tighten my trucks down very tight until they are expanding horizontally. I don't know if this is normal, since I only have originals and a terrible set of old gullwings. But combined with the fact that the bushings don't fit perfectly into the seats of the hanger, I'm a little worried something isn't right. Nothing big since I can always switch back to the stock bushings, but I'm not sure if there is something i'm not doing. Also, the board stays somewhat tilted when I step off my board.

I have 3 sets of bushings now,
Venom Standards 90a
Randal stock clear red (Tall/short cone)
And I ordered I believe 85a Tall cone and short cone abec 11s. I may have gone softer, but I dont remember and theyre not here yet.

My bushing choices probably arent the best since I pretty much made them myself.

Thanks for helping with my problems!

Unless you use extra risers or smaller wheels, your bushing choice is not going to work for you. Having them preloaded to the point where they are noticeably expanding horizontally and stay tilted when you step off of the board is not good. With stock randal ruby cones you would also likely have to crank them down harder than you would like. Venom barrels deform a lot, and so will most any conical bushing in the duros you're likely to use.

Instead of overtightening your trucks, here is your solution regarding bushing selection:

Get harder bushings, or bushings that do not deform as much as venom barrels do.

Unfortunately I have yet to try the stim shaped bushings, but that should restrict your ultimate lean. Also, you can use a top bushing that is short or has a metal insert (or both) to restrict the ultimate lean.

I run 42 randals on an old voodoo with 70mm wheels and 1/4" soft riser. To keep it fairly loose with no chance of wheelbite, I run 90a venom barrels on bottom with a short bones hardcore medium insert bushing on the top. Given that you have a deck with cutouts you should be able to run the tall bones rather than the short on top, but really you are going to have to experiment and see what works for you.

Having a cupped washer rather than flat will change the response a little, but a switch will not solve your wheelbite issues. One main reason to change from cupped to flat is that people have a tendency to over tighten their bushings, especially in the case of venoms, and this leads to the bushing spilling over the edge of the cup and being permanently deformed or even destroyed by the lip. This also causes the board to stay in the tilted position that you described.

**Fmunkey** · 07-06-2009 09:09 PM

Thanks for the help flying dutchman, but once I got the longer kingpin everything was solved. I had to over tighten to get the kingpin into the nut at all. That's why it was they were deforming so much. I've since switched to abec11 relfex bushings in 83a, and these are even more reboundy than the venoms. I haven't tightened them very much, since I want it to be fairly carvy right now, but all my problems were due to the kingpin. Though I'm sure I'll be needing a riser pretty soon, otang freerides very fast.

**FlyingDutchman** · 07-06-2009 09:20 PM

You had to crank them down because the kingpin wasn't long enough? I thought it was because

Originally Posted by Fmunkey

....LY switch gets wheel bite with my Durians ... So I have to tighten my trucks down very tight until they are expanding horizontally.

so I'm sure you can understand why I gave you the response that I did

By the way, I've not yet had a chance to try the Reflex bushings. Do they deform significantly less than the venoms, even in the softer duro?

**Blix** · 07-06-2009 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by FlyingDutchman

By the way, I've not yet had a chance to try the Reflex bushings. Do they deform significantly less than the venoms, even in the softer duro?

IME they deform a lot more, and need to be cranked down to perform decent
(cupped washers all around) and yet they feel dead-ish compared to Venoms. Some might love it, I don't. I prefer the springyness of Venoms.

**Fmunkey** · 07-06-2009 09:43 PM

Yeah, I got wheel bite at first, but I've been playing with the bushings a lot and I still can't replicate it. Though, it was when I put all my weight on on edge standing still, so I don't know what would happen during riding. After sanding the edges about 1mm at about a 45 degree angle they fit perfectly into the randals.

It feels like they rebound much more than the harder venoms, so my best guess is that they deform more when riding (I think that's what you want to know) Both are a Barrel/Tall cone combo. I tried running double barrels, venoms on bottom, reflex on top, but I think I over tightened and couldn't get a slide going, so I switched back to the venoms temporarily. But after I sanded down the cones, I really like them. Though I think they are tightened a little too much and the barrels have a very slight curve to the edge, so I'll have to try a harder set when I get the money. But that's the price of experimenting I guess. They're very nice overall.