Original Trucks and Stability

[Russ Phelan]

Everyone on this forum seems to have something against going fast on Original trucks. I've done a whole lot of experimenting, and thought I'd tell you what I've learned, and what you can and can't do on these things.

The key to getting speed on these trucks without bailing comes from two places. First, the springs. Reds, when tightened properly, will go to 35, faster with a good rider. Whites will go about as fast as I'd ever go. Second, and most importantly, you have to KNOW how to ride Originals. I've seen so many threads on here about some guy stepping on Originals for the first time, and bailing on some hill. Fine, but that's not the point. If you know these trucks, you can ride them fast, just ask Brian Bishop. You'll need a solid tuck with your weight forward, but it's actually a pretty confident ride when you're good at it.

So tighter springs will let you go faster, but doesn't that take the point of owning Originals? Suddenly your board is no fun on flatland, and doesn't whip out those sick carves and pumps. Well, that's easy to fix. On your shorter Derringer 28 type boards, run a black spring in front, red in back. Tighten the red up to the point where the metal tab is just past halfway into the housing. Run the black as loose as you like. This is pretty seriously stable, and still has the Original turnyness. Not to mention it turns it into a ridiculously powerful pumper. Need more speed on your longer, stiffer boards? Run reds in front, whites in back. Without running split springs, I probably wouldn't like Originals. Give it a try before you give up on them. I know it's not a DH board, but it's nice to have something versatile that will still hit a hill when you come to one. If you really need to be rock steady, dewedge the back truck 10 degrees.

Anyone else have ideas to get more out of Original Trucks?

Russ

[sniffleless]

You pretty much covered everything I would have suggested.
I have ran 35mph on Originals S-6's with the black springs not even tightened down any more than normal and the rear dewedged 10*. You just have to know how to ride them. No sudden carves or deep turning helps at speed. It just takes some nerve and knowing your ride.
Now I still wouldn't suggest Originals to someone who wanted a speed board or anything but if you are out riding your Originals there is no need to be afraid of a little speed. Just know your limits and your gear as always.

[partninjas]

The problem isn't exactly stability with Originals. It's the fact that due to their geometry and snappy/diving turns they are very twitchy for speeds. The slightest adjustment makes them go crazy and high speeds.

In my experience, the white spring wasn't any less twitchy than a black spring.

Things to improve Originals:

- Better wave cams. Perhaps make them out of self oiling UHMW?
- Redesign the metal tab on top of the wave cam so that a riser/recess isn't needed.
- King pins could be .25" - .5" shorter. This would prevent the KP from grinding into the deck.

[Rich Nelson]

its not impossible to go fast on originals, but they're not the best trucks for it.

I had a set for a while, when you built up a bit of speed they did seem to want to hold the line, and i never got bad wobbles or anything, but that had way to much lean for any type of hard carving at speed ime, even with square lipped slalom wheels they would slide out extremely easily, and when they did it was hard to pull off a decent speed check since they liked to turn 90 degrees, (made 180s easy though)


anyway i'll take a set of reverse kingpin trucks with some decent bushings over them in most cases, though they're very fun on flatland, and I imagine they would be fun in a bowl too.

[JamieReis]

The problem isn't exactly stability with Originals. It's the fact that due to their geometry and snappy/diving turns they are very twitchy for speeds. The slightest adjustment makes them go crazy and high speeds.

In my experience, the white spring wasn't any less twitchy than a black spring.

Things to improve Originals:

- Better wave cams. Perhaps make them out of self oiling UHMW?
- Redesign the metal tab on top of the wave cam so that a riser/recess isn't needed.
- King pins could be .25" - .5" shorter. This would prevent the KP from grinding into the deck.

+1
Couldn't agree more. Their snappiness is the reason that they feel awkward at speed. I could ride these at 35mph fine, but when you get the inevitable wobble from changes in the surface of the road, the reactivity/twichyness of these trucks makes it infinitely harder to ride out that initial wobble (which with any other truck, you can just easily ride it out.)

its not impossible to go fast on originals, but they're not the best trucks for it.

I had a set for a while, when you built up a bit of speed they did seem to want to hold the line, and i never got bad wobbles or anything, but that had way to much lean for any type of hard carving at speed ime, even with square lipped slalom wheels they would slide out extremely easily, and when they did it was hard to pull off a decent speed check since they liked to turn 90 degrees, (made 180s easy though)


anyway i'll take a set of reverse kingpin trucks with some decent bushings over them in most cases, though they're very fun on flatland, and I imagine they would be fun in a bowl too.

+1
I have had the same experience with speed checking them. I'm not sure exactly why they feel that way, but while it can be done, it is just not at all a speed friendly ride.

[RelyK]

well last night was the night I got bucked off my board from wobbles. it was down a two lane walking path hill and I was probably getting up to about 30+. I was drop knee, all my weight on my front foot, holding onto my rail for some balance and this worked fine on my gullwing chargers and my pintail. not so great for my original, it got the wobbles so bad I just couldnt keep up, and I went shoulder first into the asphalt, slid about 10ft. Didnt feel too great, doesnt mean it will be my last time, but it might be for that board..

Ill give what you suggest a shot, see how it goes, smaller hill though, I might need a new wave cam and springs soon anyway

[SeanML]

well last night was the night I got bucked off my board from wobbles. it was down a two lane walking path hill and I was probably getting up to about 30+. I was drop knee, all my weight on my front foot, holding onto my rail for some balance and this worked fine on my gullwing chargers and my pintail. not so great for my original, it got the wobbles so bad I just couldnt keep up, and I went shoulder first into the asphalt, slid about 10ft. Didnt feel too great, doesnt mean it will be my last time, but it might be for that board..

Ill give what you suggest a shot, see how it goes, smaller hill though, I might need a new wave cam and springs soon anyway

you got wobbles on originals???? this is the first I've ever heard of it.


I love 'em to death, but the maintenance drives me nuts... too much upkeep. I like to run mine loose, makes slides wicked easy... fun trucks on a long wheelbase.

[RelyK]

you got wobbles on originals???? this is the first I've ever heard of it.


I love 'em to death, but the maintenance drives me nuts... too much upkeep. I like to run mine loose, makes slides wicked easy... fun trucks on a long wheelbase.

I got BAD wobbles, and Im missing alot of skin along the left side of my body to prove it

[theracoonofjake]

bombing with the apex 37 is hella fun

black springs was whatever and i could go moderate speeds, but i love my white springs for bombing

[Russ Phelan]

Another big issue in preventing wobbles on Originals:

The stiffness of the return-to-center on the trucks is determined by the condition of the wavecams. If your Original trucks seem like they don't stick a line in the middle, check out the cams. If you break them a lot, go up a spring tension, and DON'T tighten the trucks.

I find tons of people riding Originals who think they suck, and have really obviously broken cams that have been that way for months. Throw in a new pair, and you may have a different opinion on how well they handle speed.

Russ

[rosewood thief]

well,

when i buy a truck like this i dont plan on going fast, i have randals for that. thats the nice thing about having spare components, you can always be experimenting and having fun turning a slider into a downhill board, a dancer into a pumper, whatever. i buy trucks like these to carve, and pump, and only to carve and pump, i usually try my best to do what the truck/wheel/board (mainly trucks and wheels) are made for. and then tweak them to do something else, i turned my legendary dragon, a 60 in cruiser into a speed demon by adding venom eliminators, the thing feels great at 35mph on a winding hill, just because i added spare bushings.

my point is, anything can be tweaked to handle speed/pumping/carving/sliding, by just having fun experimenting, like a month ago there was a thread about bennetts, i said dont take them fast, and people came in talking about taking them 40 on a GS course, so the next day i got the old tackle box out and experimented with bushings for hours, finally i got the perfect bushing combo and took them 25 without a problem, they were just a bit twitchy.

which raises another point, no amount of bushings or springs can stop a truck from being twitchy. bushings and springs add stability or pumbability to a truck, but leave the twitchiness the way it was when the trucks were brand new and not tweaked. and it all depends on the rider, different people feel better on different things, cuz the world dont move to the beat of just one drum...... you have to take in mind that a different rider may feel better with different springs on there originals.

originals are teh secks, ive never owned a set, but got to ride some, and mmmmm.....

PS i hope my post makes sense

[JamieReis]

well,

when i buy a truck like this i dont plan on going fast, i have randals for that. thats the nice thing about having spare components, you can always be experimenting and having fun turning a slider into a downhill board, a dancer into a pumper, whatever. i buy trucks like these to carve, and pump, and only to carve and pump, i usually try my best to do what the truck/wheel/board (mainly trucks and wheels) are made for. and then tweak them to do something else, i turned my legendary dragon, a 60 in cruiser into a speed demon by adding venom eliminators, the thing feels great at 35mph on a winding hill, just because i added spare bushings.

my point is, anything can be tweaked to handle speed/pumping/carving/sliding, by just having fun experimenting, like a month ago there was a thread about bennetts, i said dont take them fast, and people came in talking about taking them 40 on a GS course, so the next day i got the old tackle box out and experimented with bushings for hours, finally i got the perfect bushing combo and took them 25 without a problem, they were just a bit twitchy.

which raises another point, no amount of bushings or springs can stop a truck from being twitchy. bushings and springs add stability or pumbability to a truck, but leave the twitchiness the way it was when the trucks were brand new and not tweaked. and it all depends on the rider, different people feel better on different things, cuz the world dont move to the beat of just one drum...... you have to take in mind that a different rider may feel better with different springs on there originals.

originals are teh secks, ive never owned a set, but got to ride some, and mmmmm.....

PS i hope my post makes sense

Thats good, I couldn't agree more with that first line.

Original makes awesome stuff, but:

I hate when people get defensive about their gear.

If you have a board setup with original trucks, just accept the fact that the board isn't stable at speed.

If you have a dervish, just accept that it isn't good for downhill.

If you own a Demonseed, just accpet that it isn't good for carving.

You see what I mean? Too often around here, people are too concern about defending their equipment to really leave valuable feedback. Now people that are trying to decide between a deck complete with Originals and one with Randals (etc,) they are going to think, "well originals might be slightly less stable at speed, but its not too big of a difference because tons of people are saying how they go super fast on their originals and they are so great for DH."

Get serious people! End of rant.

[rosewood thief]

huh?

were you saying i got defensive or???

whats your point?

[schmoose]

I say that Original trucks are great, and loads of fun to ride, thats for sure. but no matter how stiff of a spring you put on them I would still not trust them for DH. they were designed for carving and pumping, not for DH. its kind of like asking a Bar-tender to all of the sudden be an attorney, maybe some of them would do ok, but in general its just not going to happen. they were designed for different disciplines is guess is what Im trying to say

dont get me wrong they are great carving trucks, but not great for DH. I bet some of you have taken them pretty fast, but even knowing that, I still fell a lot safer on my Randal DH.

[Russ Phelan]

Guys, especially Jar, I think you've missed my point.

I know Originals aren't for DH, and I said that in the original post. However, "going down hills" doesn't necessarily mean "downhill racing"

There seems to be an attitude on Silverfish that if you go a notch over 25mph on Originals, you will die. I just want to debunk that. Do they give you a wonderful ride at speed? No, they aren't meant for that. But they CAN hold a line if you set them up right, and know how to ride them.

When somebody thinks about buying a board, I don't want them to think that they will have to walk down every hill they come to on Original trucks.

Russ

[schmoose]

I don't want them to think that they will have to walk down every hill they come to on Original trucks.

Russ

no they can carve down

[JamieReis]

Guys, especially Jar, I think you've missed my point.

I know Originals aren't for DH, and I said that in the original post. However, "going down hills" doesn't necessarily mean "downhill racing"

There seems to be an attitude on Silverfish that if you go a notch over 25mph on Originals, you will die. I just want to debunk that. Do they give you a wonderful ride at speed? No, they aren't meant for that. But they CAN hold a line if you set them up right, and know how to ride them.

When somebody thinks about buying a board, I don't want them to think that they will have to walk down every hill they come to on Original trucks.

Russ

Then you are a rare breed without the "my gear is the best gear," mentality.

Well stated. I agree, you can take originals over 25 mph. I don't think you will die going even 40 mph if you own one and ride it often, I'm just saying that people often defend to the death their beloved originals like they are good for downhilling. They just aren't. I totally see where you are coming from telling people that they can take the original down a hill without walking it, but you have to see that I am showing the other side of the coin. They may like to know that a deck with pretty much any other setup will be more stable at speed. So they would be better off getting something else if they would come to a hill where they might considering walking down.

Good post regardless. Its just information for the people considering originals. It doesn't effect me one way or the other. Just your opinion and mine. I'm totally willing to consider your opinion as valuable.