Bushings. Different types and how to set them up.

[gavmck]

Bushings. Probably one of the most important parts of your longboard setup. These can dictate how your board feels to an amazing degree.

Board getting boring?
Want to liven up a setup but don't have much cash?
Need a little more stability?

Play with your bushings! One of the cheapest parts of a longboard that also has one of the biggest effects on the ride...

Lets begin with setting them up. I'm gonna use the example of a Randal truck cos that's what most people run and this info can be easily ported to other hardware heh.

Randals begin with 2 'cone' shape bushings, one larger than the other, 2 cupped washers and a 2.5" kingpin.



Hardness:
Bushings have a perfect compression point (How tight you crank your kingpin). This is when the bushing is 'engaged' at the center point, when the truck is not turning, but not too tight that the bushing is already in a state of compression. There should be no slop if you wiggle it before you can feel the bushing engage. It should have a smooth feeling. The sides should not be bulging out at all at the center point.

If you have slop, use softer bushings. If you have bulging edges, use harder bushings.



Washers:
Personally, I like flat washers. These allow for the maximum turn depth, whilst still retaining good rebound. A cupped washer will make the bushing compress more towards the edge of the bushing as you turn. This gives a more progressive turn. The resistance to the turn will build up faster the more you lean. This often limits the turn depth a bit as you will need more force to get the same amount of turn when at the peak of the turn. Using no washers will give you a deeper turn, but with less bounce back at the peak of the turn so it can feel a little squirrely or 'twitchy'.

Flat washers should match up roughly with the edge of your bushing. Use a bigger one for things like JimZ, medium for barrels and you can go quite small for cones.



Shape:
The shape of a bushing gives a lot of it's feel (apart from the urethane compound). Standard shapes are 'stepped' like an eliminator or JimZ, Barrel or cone.

Cone shaped bushings do not have much support in the center and offer a greater turn depth. This makes them great for craving when you want a flowy ride that never goes in a straight line.

Barrels offer a stronger center point whilst still retaining a good bit of turn. They will offer less depth than a cone shaped bushing, but you get a bit more kick back out of the turns at the peak.

Stepped bushings offer the strongest center point and the least turn depth. This is why people often like them for downhill as they feel very 'stable' with the strong center point and do not turn too much so you drift out too far.




Compound:
The urethane formula used to make your bushings is really quite important. Generally there are three things that make up how a particular urethane 'feels'. Squish, bounce and compression. Squish is that feeling of sqashyness like foam or rubber. Bounce is how much it 'bounces' you back out of the turn. And compression is how far it compresses before you can feel the bounce. Below I offer my personal opinions of these values (Out of ten) for most major bushing manufacturers. Unfortunately I am unable to give scores for ABEC11 because my delivery seems to have been delayed. Will post up when I get em in though...


Khiros - Squishy, but not much
S 5
B 4
C 4

Holeys - Squishy with light bounce at the peak of turn
S 7
B 6
C 5


Bones hardcore - Smooth thoughout the turn
S 6
B 6
C 7


Venom barrels - Mad compression and bounce
S 3
B 8
C 7


Venom Eliminators - MAD bounce in the soft duros
S 3
B 9
C 5


JimZ - Smooth and supported
S 4
B 5
C 5


Sabre - Squishy feel with mad turn depth and a good kick at the bottom
S 8
B 7
C 9


Abec11 - Where's my order?
S ?
B ?
C ?


So there's my slightly dodgy summary of bushings, enjoy!

[Archy]

Gav, I love it when you do this.

Bump for North American morning!

[Amfab]

Fantastic explanation and information!

[Petary791]

I love the technical terms of "squish," "bounce," and "compression." =D

[shrugs1434]

"bounce" most nearly means rebound, right? The whole snap-back-to-center feel.
great thread! I'll send a link to every longboarder I know.

[gavmck]

Yeah sort of. Rather than straight return to center, I mean the actual 'bounce' when it kicks you back out of the turn at the deepest point. I nearly got thrown off by that bounce the first time I rode some soft eliminators...

[SirKale]

id switch bounce and compression on the Sabre one. ive been riding the x-type on a free-ride board the F type in my DH. for there duro i find them harder to compress then a venom/retro, but offer massive amount of bounce back. makes them great for pumping.

[Archy]

That's a good point about the Sabres. I've been able to go with lower duros with them than I have with Venoms, even the elims.

And how is it possible this thread is almost 12 hours old and hasn't been stickied?

[nicthekid220]

stickY!!!!

[Amfab]

How would you rate stock Randalls?

[gavmck]

Hmmmm, having ridden the sabres a little more, I think the F-type and R-type feel very different. A guy on the inside has told me they are completely different compunds! Thats why R-type has more squish and a more smooth feeling, while the F-type gives more bounce and funtimes!

I'm afraid I can't comment on stock Randals as I haven't ridden any for months. I like barrels

[fonsle]

great summary gav, thanks!!

Is there a big difference between 88A Sabres and 90A Venoms?

[gavmck]

Yah, Sabres and Venoms (barrels) feel quite different to me. Venoms seem to compress really far with not much squish, then have a big bounce back at the deepest part if the turn, while Sabres have a lot more squishy feeling and a smoother turn, still bounces back, but I think they compress more before they do it. Just gotta try em both I guess! They both feel rad, but in a different way....

[gavmck]

Righto, seeing as you lot seem to like this, I'm going to add an extension to it. WOOO!


Kingpins
Your average kingpin on a Randal truck is a bit small. And a bit weak (Altho Ithink they've changed that). And the wrong way round! Oh dear.

In order to run double barrel bushings like Sabres, ABEC11, Venom etc you will need a longer kingpin. While you're at it, it's probably best to get a stronger one too.

For Americans, you will need a grade 8, fine thread hex head bolt.
For the UK, you need a 3/8" UNF Hex head bolt.

Instead of putting the kingpin through the hangar first, down into the baseplate, I recommend putting it through the baseplate first before you mount it on your board. This is stronger than the other way around and after snapping a few Randal kingpins, I won't run it any other way! It also makes it easier when changing bushings around I think.

So onto size, for double barrels you need at least 2.75" to be comfy and able to adjust tightness at will. For extra big ones (Like those 86a Orange ABEC11 barrels!) you might need to go up to a 3" bolt. If you get it too long, you can always hacksaw it down, if you get it too short you'll just be really bummed out...





Wedging
Wedging and bushings is very important. With a lower angle truck, you have more direct leverage over the bushings, which makes them feel softer than in a higher angle truck. On a board like, say, an Evo this is quite an extreme difference!

To achieve the same force needed per amount of lean at each end of the board you need to run different hardness bushings. If you use the same bushings, then the back will be easier to turn than the front. This leads to wobbles due to increased oscillation of the back truck, heh. It's hard to know exactly what split you want to run as it will feel different for all boards.

On my chinook I used (until recently) green venom barrels in the back (93a) with Red ones up front (90a) to achieve the same feeling. This can be adjusted somewhat with the tightness of the bushings, but not too much or you will lose the characteristics of the bushing in terms of compression etc as well as wearing out the bushings faster.




Different top/botttom bushings
This is where it gets quite fun. Well I think so anyways. To achieve a different turn 'feel' you can use different top and bottom bushings as well as different bushings front and back. Or just different top and bottom. Here's what I think it does to the feel of the turn.

Bottom = closest to baseplate
Top = the other one

Soft top/harder bottom
This provides a very stable center, while still allowing a good depth of turn. As you lean, the amount of turn you get increases expontentially (a bit) so for more lean you get MORE turn. This is due to the top bushing compressing more, which almost acts like a higher angle truck. Gives a fun lively ride, this one is my favourite for everything.

Soft bottom/harder top
This gives a surfy loose feeling in the center with more snap back from the deepest part of the turn. Often liked for downhill, it almost acts as if the trucks angle gets lower the more you turn due to the more squashy bottom bushing. I believe I have heard people stick their lines slightly more with this combo.


Anything I've missed?

[WeekendxCarver]

oooo nice thread sticky for sure but add in the effects of barrel and cone/ cone and cone/ and double barrels combos. just trying to help

But overall I think you nailed it sir

[REXinCO]

Great write up, very useful!

[Largeboarder]

Great summary,but is still a bit confusing to me..What I understood so far:

Bounce is that rebound after finishing the turn that sometimes throw you off.And the higher the compression grade,more compressed the bushing will have to be before it bounces,so this may be good except it will be harder to turn on hard bushings.Harder bushings also needs more strength to be compressed,so it may be better for heavier people.Oh,and didn't figure out in what squishiness affects your ride,ok..It'll feel like foam/rubber and what?

And also..Aren't barrel bushings shorter than cone bushings? If so,why would I need a longer kingpin?

[gavmck]

Oh,and didn't figure out in what squishiness affects your ride,ok..It'll feel like foam/rubber and what?

And also..Aren't barrel bushings shorter than cone bushings? If so,why would I need a longer kingpin?

Looks like you've got it pretty good there! Squishyness doesn't really affect your ride, only the feel. It's just how squishy the urethane feels mostly around the center when not turning much.

Barrell bushings are either the same height (tall cones) or taller (short cones) than cone bushings. Randals come with one tall cone and one short cone. when you run double barrels, it comes up taller so you need a longer kingpin or you end up overtightening the trucks resulting in a bad feeling turn.

[n3rrd]

Great post. I've slowly been learning bits and pieces of what's been said through trial and error but it's nice to see it all summarized. I thought I'd offer a few of my own observations...

I have no experience with Sabre bushings, but I have several Venoms, a Khiro standard bushing kit, and just received my sixteen Abec11 bushings. I weigh about 140lbs and find myself preferring duros between 80a-90a across all three brands. I generally use between 85-90a though.

On my Randals, I prefer the feel of double barrel. I've played with barrel/tall cone, but didn't find it as enjoyable. You could get into a turn much quicker, but it always felt as though you hit the limit of the lean prematurely...

Khiro barrels are shorter than the barrels of the other three brands.
Khiro short cones are shorter than the Abec11 short cones (which are actually the same height as Khiro barrels).

The newer bushing brands (Venom, Abec11, Sabre) seem to have been produced with modern truck design in mind, and are taller. The Khiro short cones/barrels seem to be sized better for Trackers (no experience with Indys yet).

I haven't put the Abec11s to much use yet, but right away I've noticed that they generally feel softer than Venoms even at similar duros. They also seem to feel better with the KPs slightly tigher than I had them with Venoms.

[notredamedavid10]

Originally Posted by Largeboarder

Great summary,but is still a bit confusing to me..What I understood so far:

Bounce is that rebound after finishing the turn that sometimes throw you off.And the higher the compression grade,more compressed the bushing will have to be before it bounces,so this may be good except it will be harder to turn on hard bushings.Harder bushings also needs more strength to be compressed,so it may be better for heavier people.Oh,and didn't figure out in what squishiness affects your ride,ok..It'll feel like foam/rubber and what?

And also..Aren't barrel bushings shorter than cone bushings? If so,why would I need a longer kingpin?

if you have squishier bushings then you won't get as much rebound coming out of turns.