My Original Trucks Exploded!

[phidauex]

Er, that is, "My Original Trucks, Exploded"

The second in my series of mechano-macro longboard porn, I now submit careful measurements and closeup photos of the Original S8 truck.

Here is my first one, about the Revenge 6" truck: http://www.silverfishlongboarding.co...ic.php?t=24632

Original trucks use a pair of 'saddle shaped' bushings and a spring to control the side-to-side motion of the hangar. As the hangar turns, one bushing, locked to the hangar, is pushed away from the other bushing (locked to the baseplate), because of their interlocking saddle shapes. As the bushings are separated, one of them compresses the short spring. The farther you turn the truck, the more the spring is compressed, resulting in a fairly linear amount of force required to turn. The harder you turn, the harder you push, fairly simple.

This process does require a LOT of parts, however.

Revenge trucks use 4 parts. Baseplate, hangar, bushing, kingpin assembly (kingpin, nut, two washers).

Original trucks, on the other hand, use 7 parts. Baseplate, hangar, top and bottom bushing, spring assembly (spring and two washers), kingpin assembly (kingpin and nut), kingpin nut retainer.

The hangar and baseplate castings are high quality, with good clearances, and plenty of beefyness in critical locations. They are finished to a nice polish, though my trucks came fairly dirty with some handling damage from the factory. Nothing serious though, just cosmetics.

Because of the design, it is possible for the bushings to develop cracks. The double-saddle slope configuration results in high point loading on parts of the bushing, meaning eventually, they will fail. Fortunately, replacement bushings are cheap (4.00$) and are easy to install. Some people have had problems right away with bushings, others have gone a few years without need for replacement. Original suggests their bushings last 8 months on average.

The kingpin is 3/8" diameter, 3 inches long, with a 1/2" socket cap head, and uses a supplied 5mm allen wrench. The kingpin nut is a standard nylock type self-locking nut. They recommend replacing the nut whenever the truck is disassembled, but this may not be necessary, as long as the nylon insert is fully intact. However, they are pretty cheap, so it certainly won't hurt to replace.

The spring is about 1" high when uncompressed, and about 1.25" in diameter. It is quite stiff.

Original trucks are very low by themselves. The center of the axle is only 2 and 1/8" above the bottom of the baseplate. However, Original supplies a 3/4" riser that they intend for you to use on nearly all installations, bringing the axle height to 2 7/8". Compare to the height of a Revenge truck, 3 3/8", or a Randall, 3", and you'll see that the Originals, even with their fat included riser, are actually very low trucks. No wonder wheel bite can be a problem!

These trucks are uber-turny, but not in a 'loose' sense. Revenge trucks have a very loose feel, because they start out turning with no effort, then slightly more, then more, then even more force required as you turn.

Originals, on the other hand, take a bit of force to START turning, but once they 'break loose', they turn very easily all the way up to the stops. The force profile is very different, and feels very strange at first...

They are also quite loud. Driving over rough pavement makes it sound like there are a pair of maracas under the deck. Smooth pavement, on the other hand, isn't a problem.

Overall, I'm not sure if I like them or not! They are very snappy, which is nice, but also a little odd. I'm going to give them an honest try, however, to see if I get used to them.

peace,
sam

[phidauex]

Addendum: Original kindly included a set of mounting hardware with the trucks. Thats a nice touch! They are quality Stainless Steel, truss head allen bolts w/ SS nylock nuts. They are about 1.75" long, and take a 4mm allen wrench (not included). They are a bit fatter than the normal #10 hardware. I think they are M5 metric bolts, 0.8mm thread pitch. I actually had to ream out my 7/32" deck mounting holes a bit to get them to fit. But they are high quality, and it saves you a few bucks.

peace,
sam

[HerBDerb]

Nice indepth review, didn't leave out any little tiny part of the trucks.
Reminds me of when my originals were shiny and new.

Now how about a My Stroker Trucks, Exploded! or a My PVD Trucks Exploded!

[carbonfiberlove]

So Sam which trucks do you like better? Or have you not gotten your board back?

[ryan]

So Sam which trucks do you like better? Or have you not gotten your board back?

I've rode both, and I like the revenges.
The originals are to loud for me, that little squeaking sound they make drives me insane!!!
The revenges are way smoother and have less rebound, where as the originals carve deeper and have crazy rebound.

[Bushman]

^ you man you gots to be liberal with the sweet sweet lubricious lithium grease yo!! mine are silent when turning,just the sweet sound of 'thane scrubbing the pavement as i carve hard.

[phidauex]

Well, my early impression is that I like the Revenges better than the Originals... However, it might just be a 'not gotten used to it yet' problem...

I'm setting up another deck now that should let me run the Originals with no riser, so I'm going to give them some more time.

My initial impression is that their action is very 'unnatural'. The revenges have a very linear behavior. Low turning angle requires a low amount of force, a higher turning angle requires more force. The harder the angle, the harder the force. This means they are a bit 'floppy' at the top, and don't have a definate 'snap' to center. However, I really like how predictable they respond.

The originals, on the other hand, have to be pushed a bit to start turning, and then it gets really easy. I found myself trying to turn, and not going anywhere, then pushing a tiny bit harder, and having the trucks 'slip' and dive into a tight carve. It was oddly unpredictable, because of the initial force required to get the bushings to start moving. I'm going to try some more, and relubricate things, so I've not discounted them yet, but I didn't like my first few rides.

The noise I'm annoyed with isn't a squeeking noise, its a rattling noise while rolling on rough pavement. I think it must be the washers on the spring bouncing around or something...

Anyway, they are both cool trucks, and I'm hoping to get more time on the Originals. They are very low, too, which is nice. Even with their 3/4" riser, they are STILL about a half inch lower than the Revenges with no riser. The axles are about an inch farther out too, so you gain about 2" of axle-to-axle wheelbase with the Originals.

I've also got a pair of 7" Revenges on the way, so another contender will soon be in the mix...

peace,
sam

[NBtodd]

yeah they may be 1/2" lower, but you need to add a 1/2" riser - and even then you will get wheelbite if you are not careful.

Revenge is sort of like Exkate- with a limited turn equated to a wheel diameter. Exkates would handle a 70mm wheel without bite. can't say that about Originals.

I didn't like the mid-point slop either - especially at that angle.

I still like RII's the most - but all these trucks are great fun to discover. Enoy finding out what you can make them do.

[Original]

Thanks for posting your opinions guys,
As always we are interested in where the rider stands.

One thing to remember when "Trying" Originals is that the resistance curve is different than any truck out there (as phidauex mentions, the resistance is in the top of the arc and then stays consistent all the way to the max out point).

The problem with this is that if you "Try" our trucks and are used to riding randals, revenge trucks or anything else that uses a conventional arc (loose at the beginning of the arc getting tighter as you go along) its going to feel un-natuarl until you get the hang of the transition.

What you have to remember is that we were going for a surf-feel truck (just like a lot of other guys out there), for me when I lean into my bottom turns my board does NOT get more difficult to turn as i get further and further over, if you dont control your turns on a surfboard you can lean over until you just fall right off without the board ever getting more difficult to turn.

Hence, our trucks do not get more difficult to turn as you lean them over. The resitance you feel at the top was created to assist in stability while pushing your board and to give the good guys the possibility of bombing.

A few things to remember when riding our trucks:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
#1. If you are new and have a kick tail, stay the heck off it.

#2. If you are new and dont have a kick tail, stay the hell away from the back of the board. As a beginner you will find our trucks much easier to control with a stance more forward on your board, or at least in the center. Stay off the back.

#3. Get a board thats designed with enough cut outs that you dont have to worry about wheel bite.

#4. Your trucks shouldnt be noisey, something is screwed up. My guess is something is scratching around in the bushing casing (the metal tube that holds the white 'bushing' cam). Re-explode that truck and then take some sand paper to the inside of that alluminum ring. Re-lube and roll-out silent. If you have trouble, call us up.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Keep up the good work,
rock the skate and the vote or pdiddy is gonna kill your ass.
-Scott

[Original]

One more thing,
If you are having too much trouble initiating the turn, loosen your trucks,
You should be able to see a little sliver of white bushing above the bushing casing at all times.

Sounds like you might be riding the trucks a little bit too tight (which is fine if you know what you are doing, not so much if you dont).

Also,
I am not implying that you do not know how to longboard or in anyway trying to muddy the waters of your skate skills, HOWEVER skating Originals is 100% different than any other truck out there (revenge included). So give it a little time : )

[btitz]

[Original]

Crazy man,
Looks like fun, bet that thing has some grip haha

Anyway,
What you have to remember is that a lot of people are doing a lot of stuff with these trucks that we never designed them for (you are one of them). That is a good thing.

It is also the reason the trucks are so metal heavy. The baseplate is hollow so there is not much you are going to be able to take out of that but the hangers can be cut down significantly if you are only using the trucks for carving (as you are).

However,
To reduce the risks of and hanger breakage, we used more metal than was required to reinforce these things. The whole mechanism has quite a lot of parts (as was mentioned earlier). The Fewer that can potentially have problems the better.

[btitz]

[phidauex]

Hey, some tips right from the horses mouth! Thanks for participating.

I think you are right, the trucks are definately different, but I don't think thats a 'bad' thing, just something to get used to.

For me, as someone who skates but has never surfed, then what my normal 'ideal' truck would be would be something with a 100% linear force to lean angle relationship. A nice straight line on the force/lean angle graph.

But on a surfboard, having an increasing resistance w/ increasing angle wouldn't make sense, because the water doesn't care if your deck is at 4 degrees or 20 degrees.

I'm making another deck now with more aggressive cutouts so I can run the S8s with little to no riser, and can give them a little more time. They are obviously well built, and a lot of people swear by them, so they'll get an honest chance.

Any truck that is different from the regular fixed pivot/dual compression bushing design is going to have the 'try it' problem... When other longboarders try out my Revenges, they instantly dislike it because it feel so unbelievably wobbly. But then they find themselves carving circles around their old board, and start to come around. I'm sure the same is true for any unconventional truck.

I'll take a closer look at the workings, to see if I can find the source of the rattling, thanks Scott, and I'll try running them a little looser to see how it feels.

peace,
sam

[phidauex]

[btitz]

^ powerslide cross trainer
|| german two-wheeled offroad inliner

[tasteofink8733]

psshhhh... screw carving...wait till they come out with their dh trucks


i have the s6s and love them and yea they take a good amount of time to get used to em but its worth it

and depending on how much u weigh you can try the upgrade springs

[chordstrummer]

phidauex: Thanks for this and the Revenge posts. They're great.

And Scott (Original), thanks for the info.

I have S10s mounted with just a 1/8" soft riser on a Jam Tuna (60" x 8.5") with Gumballs. Had to cut a notch in the riser for that tab. Been riding this setup for about six months now, it rides nice and low, and mine have always been dead quiet.

The reduced height is way more stable, easier to kick, and changes (reduces) the amount of leverage you have on the trucks. It still carves and turns like crazy, but to me it's much easier to control. Plus it just feels better. Love this setup.

Also just traded with anoter SFer for some S6s (1st gen). I think I'm going to try them as a front truck (w/ a Seismic or Indy for the rear).

[laserblast]

I love my s8's, they took a little time to get used to, getting thrown off and such...
mine dont rattle much or make any other annoying sound anymore ( they did when I first tried them), what I did is find the tightness that works for me, then lubed it and I never touched the kingpin again!
I have 'em mounted on a 60 inch board, running slalom courses

Original, keep up the good work !

[Original]

You guys are right on loading the our trucks onto the bigger decks,
Check out Hamboards when they come around those things are freaking huge! I think they are going to load up with some of ours as well.

The one S6 in the front with a standard truck in the back works really well on decks that have a short wheel base. If you are getting into that sort of thing you might want to try two S6es and then de-wedge the heck out of
the back one.

That is fun too and you still get the full board lean.