Tracker Axis

[Aaron]

Anyone riden the Tracker Axis? I guess it has a steeper king pin angle.
I bowl ride wedged (both) Tracker 184 Darts and was wondering if the Axis line would be similar in geometry. I was hoping that that only the hangars were different but they look to be a totaly new casting.

[DomitianX]

They have a very "Indy-like" geometry. I have never wedged 184 Darts so I dont know how similar they would be. The biggest they make them in is 139 BTW.

[Mile_High_Mark]

149 RT-X and Orions have Indy-like geometry, too.

[silversurfer]

Why not just get Indy's?

I find Indy's to be my favorite old style 'conventional' trucks.

Great for bowls, pools, parks, sliding, and any general skating
that does not call for Randal's (which I use when I need stability)
or Original's (which I use when I need ultra tight turning, and general
carving).

[Mile_High_Mark]

It's difficult to install longer kingpins in Stage-9 baseplates.

Why not just get Indy's?

I find Indy's to be my favorite old style 'conventional' trucks.

Great for bowls, pools, parks, sliding, and any general skating
that does not call for Randal's (which I use when I need stability)
or Original's (which I use when I need ultra tight turning, and general
carving).

[Partyboypowell]

But you dont really want long kingpins if your riding bowl/street. Do you?

[silversurfer]

It's difficult to install longer kingpins in Stage-9 baseplates.

Oh yeah I forgot.
I never needed longer kingpins on my Indy's.
Longer kingpins allow for bigger bushings for more turning.
I don't need more turning on my Indy's cause I have Randal's
and Original's for when I need more turning.

I do use soft bones hard cores on some of my Indy's and that works great.

But I remember you switching the base plates for Cores to solve
the 'problem' mentioned above.

But I suppose you could just get the Trackers mentioned above.

The RT-X/RT-S combination is very nice for certain applications such
as slalom or mini's.

I'm old school and the only 'conventional' trucks I like are
Indy's and some Trackers.

I don't consider Randal's 'conventional' trucks.

A complete truck quiver consists of Indy's, Randal's and Original's IMO.

Except for slalom which requires a different set of truck attributes all together.
There are many great slalom trucks so I need to add a set of those
to complete my truck quiver.

[Mile_High_Mark]

The stock Indy kingpins are so short that it's difficult to install an aftermarket bushing and preserve the correct geometry. I set up some Indy 215's for a customer and installed some yellow/med Bones HardCore bushings. Because of the height difference in the bottom bushing, I had to add a flat washer between the base and bushing. By the time I got the kingpin nut safely tightened, the bushings were pretty much "squashed."

I run 2.25" kingpins on all of my Indy and Indy-clones. No hangups grinding thus far.

[Sensei]

Khiro inserts fit perfectly and work great with Indy's with the stock kingpin.


Oh crap, that post actually makes sense and was a bit helpful, wasn't it?

aaaaah,

A BOOGA BOOGA!!!!

There, thats more like it.

[Mile_High_Mark]

Thanks for the tip, Sensei.

I prefer other bushings to the Khiro inserts, but I'll try them next time I assemble a customer's board with Indy's.

[Sensei]

Their great cause you can toss the pivot cups/washers aside too.

I ride white front/blue rear for the bowl, and blue front/red rear on the 215's for hills/comuting.

[silversurfer]

No washers is why they fit.

But wait, no PIVOT cups?

I run my Bones Hardcores without washers too, thus why they fit.

But the built in plastic washers do crack quickly.

I'll have to try the Khiros on my Indy's.

[Speck Nineteen]

I used to run Khiro Insters in my Indys. I don't know, maybe it's only me but I though they made my Indy's feel dead. I put in yellow Hardcores and now I can't stay off them. Although, like silversurfer said, the plastic does crack quickly. That's my only gripe.

Something needs to change, though. Either Indy needs a new baseplate design or Tracker needs to start making straight-pivot trucks over 139mm

[Mile_High_Mark]

[Speck Nineteen]

I didn't know the RTX's went up to 149. Gotta check those out.

[WalkTogether]

I still don't understand the difference in turning with Indy's and Trackers.
I've read something like Indy's turn sharper but eventually slower, and Trackers are slow but surfy... I dunno if that's right.
So what's the difference when it comes to bowl riding?

[Aaron]

Well I have almost (if I count Bahne, ACS, Chicago and BSC trucks) always ridden Trackers. More recently (two years ago) I mistakenly thought Tracker was no more and ended up building a street deck with Indy's. A few months ago when I really started to skate again I tried that board at a skate park and gave my knees a real beating.
Thinking that it was the popcicle wheel base I got a new pig type pool board having 17.5 wheel base. I grooved on that change but found it still to be rather unstable for me. I switched to Tracker 184's and really started rocking. The last major change was wedging that set up and that really turned things around. NOT like the Indys. A steady turn but a seemingly higher turn ratio, and tighter radius than without. I understand the pivot angle issues and it does seem like I have Indy'd my 184's but there is a difference. It may be as the kingpin side is jacked the axle hanger is rocked over the pivot, more than what is on an Indy putting the wheels more to the inside of the turn - meaning stability!(?)
The Axis may take some experimenting though I may just machine some self wedged-wedgeless Track Darts plates. Changing the width is easy.

[Aaron]

I still don't understand the difference in turning with Indy's and Trackers.
I've read something like Indy's turn sharper but eventually slower, and Trackers are slow but surfy... I dunno if that's right.
So what's the difference when it comes to bowl riding?

What I think causes the non-linear Indy turn is due to the steeper "straight" pivot, though not actually straight. If it was straight, as in no angle, the pivot would be perpendicular to the board, like the mounting holes. Anyway, steeper angle means higher ratio of mechanical motion - think short lever. Higher ratio also means lower torque at the work end. This amplifies road "noise" feeding back to the rider. A lower ratio, like a Tracker, gives the rider less leverage (slower turn), more range (due to geometric stability), less "noise" - the surf feel.
The high angle/Indy also puts a higher demand on the pivot geometry, causing "signal" distortion which is where the truck starts to turn less with increased effort.
At first the Indy turns quick. As pressure increases, the hanger moves off axis at the king pin not follwing the intended geometry, pushing the bushings out of shape, and turning less with more effort. Trackers do this too but because the angle is not the same the result is different.
A truck with a second pivot or rigid axis geometry would not have this error in movement.
In racing automotive suspension design this error is referred to as "bind" and is avoided at great cost so that (a) there is not any sort of system failure and (b) so that the driver can accuratly evaluate and tune the drive (this I think has alot to do with what I call skateboarding).

[WalkTogether]

Had to read that a few times but it made sense. Thanks.

[CRASS]

I have em & they're only good for Freestyle, ive found