Khiro Bushings

**Jraice** · 04-01-2007 12:17 PM

The khiro barrel bushing kit is looking more and more appealing (instead of Jimz's) because I am getting worried I might spend $25's on a single bushing that might not be the hardness I want.

So I have some questions, if I go with the khiro bushing kit obviously I am going to play around with them a bit and try different things out but what are some basic rules? I have heard of people using different hardness's on the top and on the bottom (and how do you distiguish between top and bottom?) and also harder bushings in the back.

So what are some basic common setups... Crail trucks, dropped through and if it matters I am in the 150-160 range. I dont need to carve to much but I want it to still be pretty turny (like my stock MOOG bushings) and I like the feel of tight soft bushings, over looser hard bushings.

Lastly I have some flat washers for them... so I am going to just throw one on each side of the bushing/hanger/bushing sandwhich.

Thanks

**Jraice** · 04-01-2007 12:30 PM

Also, the bushing kit comes with "small pivot bushings (2 soft, 2 hard), and 4 large pivot bushings (2 soft, 2 hard)"...

What exactly are those...? How do they effect your ride?

**pilosopo** · 04-01-2007 12:34 PM

Top and bottom can be determined by flipping the board over, so that the trucks are upside down. The one on the bottom is well, the bottom, and the closer to the kingpin nut is the top.

Harder on bottom than top can make the truck feel tippier, kind of leaning in more/steeper and deeper with angle.

Harder on top can slow down the trucks response

pivot cups are the things in the pivot hole of the baseplate.

**Jraice** · 04-01-2007 01:26 PM

So why are there large and small pivot cups and how does the hardness effect the ride?

Neither of those (using different hardness's on top and bottom) sound that great, I guess hard on bottom could be good for when you want a quick carve but slowing down the response cant have a benifit, can it?

So it seems like I'd be best off using the same hardness on each truck but making the front one or two steps softer? Normally I just leave my front a bit looser...

And with flat washers and crails the khiro installation is pretty straight forward right? Just a washer on top and bottom...

Originally Posted by pilosopo

Top and bottom can be determined by flipping the board over, so that the trucks are upside down. The one on the bottom is well, the bottom, and the closer to the kingpin nut is the top.

Harder on bottom than top can make the truck feel tippier, kind of leaning in more/steeper and deeper with angle.

Harder on top can slow down the trucks response

pivot cups are the things in the pivot hole of the baseplate.

**mksuen** · 04-01-2007 01:30 PM

slowing down truck response gives more stability at speed, pivot cup hardness gives nominal differences compared to diff bushings. but ur missing the point of a bushing kit lol, play around, experiment, you never know what ur gonna end up liking =D

**Jraice** · 04-01-2007 01:39 PM

True, just doubt its smart to do THAT much playing around (cant be good for your kingpin nut)...

Ok so this is a legit question (has nothing to do with playing around), why are there large and small pivot cups?

Originally Posted by mksuen

slowing down truck response gives more stability at speed, pivot cup hardness gives nominal differences compared to diff bushings. but ur missing the point of a bushing kit lol, play around, experiment, you never know what ur gonna end up liking =D

**Ogre** · 04-01-2007 01:47 PM

For the different designed base plates!! Some use small..others use large Some trucks you don't need to put a flat washer on the bottom..I'm basically your size and like Blue on the bottom and White on top for the front truck...For the rear Truck I like red on the bottom and blue on top! I also use conicals on the top front as well...You really can feel a difference. Return to center and smoothness in the carve

**Mile_High_Mark** · 04-01-2007 01:50 PM

Kingpin nuts are cheap. Invest in some spares.

You won't wear out your Crails' pivot cups for quite a while, so you can pretty much ignore them for a while.

**Jraice** · 04-01-2007 05:37 PM

Interesting, Ill have to try that combo out. What type of trucks do you use and what type of board/riding style?

What type of trucks wouldnt need a bottom washer?

Sounds like during spring break (next week) Ill have to try a new combo per day! Skate by day and swap by night until I find the perfect setup...

There are literally like 100 different combo's though...

Ill head over to the hardware store sometime to get some new grade 8 nuts... I am sure that will be mucho cheaper then buying online from a skate co.

Originally Posted by dave gale

For the different designed base plates!! Some use small..others use large Some trucks you don't need to put a flat washer on the bottom..I'm basically your size and like Blue on the bottom and White on top for the front truck...For the rear Truck I like red on the bottom and blue on top! I also use conicals on the top front as well...You really can feel a difference. Return to center and smoothness in the carve

**Mile_High_Mark** · 04-01-2007 05:48 PM

You don't need grade 8 nuts. What you do need are nylon-insert locknuts in the "jam(b)" style. 3/8" x 24tpi (aka, UNF).

**karrot** · 04-01-2007 05:49 PM

^^ they do look super cool though.. especially w/ gr. 8 wahsers and black barrels

**Ogre** · 04-01-2007 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Jraice

Interesting, Ill have to try that combo out. What type of trucks do you use and what type of board/riding style?

What type of trucks wouldnt need a bottom washer?

Sounds like during spring break (next week) Ill have to try a new combo per day! Skate by day and swap by night until I find the perfect setup...

There are literally like 100 different combo's though...

Ill head over to the hardware store sometime to get some new grade 8 nuts... I am sure that will be mucho cheaper then buying online from a skate co.

I've gottoo many set-ups (25ish). I run Radikals Tracker Splits Indys Randals and several others.I do prefer Stims in the mix ,but Khiros are the tits for easily accesible bushings . I mostly slalom and hardcarve w/ the daily 2 mile trek on a cruiser/carver . What trucks are you setting up again?
And Bob is a man I don't mind supporting in the least! Great dood.

**swerve** · 04-01-2007 06:09 PM

Jraice check out http://www.mcmaster.com/ and lookup product number 90566A220. It is less than $5 for 100 nuts of the appropriate size for your kingpin.

**scabus maximus** · 04-01-2007 07:00 PM

Just some food for thought before you go off to buy a Khiro kit. As Mark stated earlier, it's probably going to be some time before you wear out any pivot cups. Another consideration one should make is will all of the bushings be used? For example, the blacks and purples.
Rather than buy a kit with stuff you may never use how about getting a wide selection of Khiro's you will use. For example, some sets of white, orange, blue and red Bitches and some sets of the same duros in barrels. The mix and match potentials are super. The height differences between the Bitch's top and bottom and the differences in the conical and barrel can be valuable when dealing with different kingpin lengths.

**Jraice** · 04-01-2007 07:31 PM

May go that route as well, I have heard the bitches rebound better and can be compressed a little more, but the barrels are a more standard and all around nice bushing. Accurate?

So what are some uses for the bitches in combo with the barrels? I have 3" kingpins oh and somebody asked what trucks... crail dh...

I buy stuff from mcmaster all the time, Ill add a bag of nuts into the next order.

Originally Posted by scabus maximus

Just some food for thought before you go off to buy a Khiro kit. As Mark stated earlier, it's probably going to be some time before you wear out any pivot cups. Another consideration one should make is will all of the bushings be used? For example, the blacks and purples.
Rather than buy a kit with stuff you may never use how about getting a wide selection of Khiro's you will use. For example, some sets of white, orange, blue and red Bitches and some sets of the same duros in barrels. The mix and match potentials are super. The height differences between the Bitch's top and bottom and the differences in the conical and barrel can be valuable when dealing with different kingpin lengths.

**Mile_High_Mark** · 04-01-2007 07:58 PM

What is it about the stock Crail bushings that you don't like?

Khiro bushings are good, but they're not a magical cure-all. Are the stock bushings too hard? Too soft? Not enough rebound? Too much rebound? Do they clash with your wheels? In other words, what aren't they doing that you wish they did?

And regarding washers, there's no standard. Your goal should be to match the height of the stock bottom (i.e., next to the baseplate) bushing, and anything else is entirely up to you. Experiment. Lather, rinse, repeat.

**Jraice** · 04-01-2007 08:37 PM

To be honest I think they are fine but I dont know what can be achieved... Do you think just swapping in the new kingpin and flat washers and using the stock bushings would be the way to go? I assume I would just need 2 washers per truck with the stock bushings... I really like the stock setup but like I said, I was blown away at how well it turned for a dh board and I bet it can be tuned to turn even better... But if the 3" grade 8 kingpin and flat washers I already have will be a huge "upgrade" Ill just swap that in. I am thinking about dying the wheels black, should work well with the bomb hills... they are pretty clear 'thane.

Originally Posted by Mile_High_Mark

What is it about the stock Crail bushings that you don't like?

Khiro bushings are good, but they're not a magical cure-all. Are the stock bushings too hard? Too soft? Not enough rebound? Too much rebound? Do they clash with your wheels? In other words, what aren't they doing that you wish they did?

And regarding washers, there's no standard. Your goal should be to match the height of the stock bottom (i.e., next to the baseplate) bushing, and anything else is entirely up to you. Experiment. Lather, rinse, repeat.

**Mile_High_Mark** · 04-01-2007 08:45 PM

Try it. We can all offer our opinions, but no-one will know how well it works except for you. You bought what is basically a DH board that's capable of some carving. A bushing swap is never going to instantly turn it into a Loaded Vanguard.

That said, changing the kingpins will do absolutely nothing to alter the board's ride. The flat washers may make it a little more carvy, but you won't know until you try it.

**Jraice** · 04-01-2007 09:19 PM

Thanks Mark, I think I will hold off on purchasing anything and may try the flat washers... like I said I am in love with how it rides but dont know how much better or different bushings will help, apparently the setup I currently have is close so it may not be worth it right now...

Thanks

Originally Posted by Mile_High_Mark

Try it. We can all offer our opinions, but no-one will know how well it works except for you. You bought what is basically a DH board that's capable of some carving. A bushing swap is never going to instantly turn it into a Loaded Vanguard.

That said, changing the kingpins will do absolutely nothing to alter the board's ride. The flat washers may make it a little more carvy, but you won't know until you try it.