Black Ops

[Xgecko]

Thanks Zack your description of styles just mad my next wheel choice easier

If Jason is riding Manx wheels, how old are they and in what condition?

a more important question is when are his wheels coming out?

anyone able to answer my question about the 75a's?

not Black Ops Thane so my guess it that it's similar to the feel of the old thane

[donald20]

When someone posts positive feedback on your competitor's product, and you call it ASS KISSING, it's just makes you look desperate. Do yourself a favor and keep that stuff in personal emails and off this forum.

then just show me where that competitor is right now to prove your point.
since i do not produce wheels at the moment i'm wondering what you are referring to.

continue...

[Formerlyproductive]

inluvwithsara - 75a is not inherently slower than 79a. It's not about the duro on it's own, it's about matching the right duro to the ring conditions, and by conditions I mean riding style, discipline, and pavement quality.

Generally speaking you'll want to run the harder wheel, as long as it stays hooked up (gripping) in the conditions you're riding in.

In other words, if you ride rough pavement, you generally will want to have softer wheels. Butter pavement, go with harder wheels. If you start to slide (and you don't want to), it might be that you need to move down in duro to a softer wheel. Unless the pavement is really hot, in which case, you might need harder duro. Clear as mud now I'm sure.

Zak, all good points. Especially about the pyschogenisis of the home brand.

We ought to have a bake off someday on overlook. Take four MFG of say a 69-70mm wheel, shave them so that they are all the same shape/lip format, with no emboss or graphics. Die them all gray so we have no idea what they are, and see what formula works. We could do the same with lip format, cones, whatever. If only I were a gentleman skateboarder, I could run such ludicrous experiments.

[pavedwave]

There are some people who swear by a certain company, and their styles may have been built around the riding characteristics of those products.

There's been so much overgeneralized hype and banter about BlackOps "vs.Chaput" this past year, it's a bummer, because most haven't been able to just focus on the wheels. Besides Gary's new data in this thread I haven't seen much science behind it. Great to finally see this.

Zak's note about ride styles matched up with the right wheel sounds like one of the most reasonable observation yet.

It might be oversimplifying things, but among the riders I know it seems like: those who are comfortable at their fastest speeds + more controlled sliding on corners seem to take to Abecs (and maybe Manx is similar, judging from Mitchell's wheel-shredding cornering style.) While those who prefer not to slide at all to begin with, and are proficient at maximizing their speed while still holding grip, might be their fastest on the new Ops. Hoping to do my own tests later...

[zavenhook]

I can't wait that you can't wait Joel!

Just in case you are not workin' Skating Sunday!

sorry, I must have just missed you, as I got on the highway I saw a car park on overlook.... I skated early, from about 8 to 10 30... too early I guess.

as for the continuing black ops one up fest.... I ride 60mm spitfires and they rock!! grippiest 100a wheels ever! whew!

But seriously, I'm interested. I thought my blacks lost some grip after they were worn in, but they are just that grippy. That is, that they still preform well when they get worn. They do have a much different coning wear than the zags, I suspect lips and core placement is the culprit, but I'm no expert. I just skate.

p.s. coss for overlook on sunday? I'll be there!!

[inluvwithsara]

inluvwithsara - 75a is not inherently slower than 79a. It's not about the duro on it's own, it's about matching the right duro to the ring conditions, and by conditions I mean riding style, discipline, and pavement quality.

Generally speaking you'll want to run the harder wheel, as long as it stays hooked up (gripping) in the conditions you're riding in.

In other words, if you ride rough pavement, you generally will want to have softer wheels. Butter pavement, go with harder wheels. If you start to slide (and you don't want to), it might be that you need to move down in duro to a softer wheel. Unless the pavement is really hot, in which case, you might need harder duro. Clear as mud now I'm sure.
.

Thanks...I am looking for a wheel for distance skating and liked my friend's 85mm speedvents...I am running Lime Bigzigs which are great...I was just eyeing the 85mm and thought maybe I might get the 75a's but was worried that they might be too pokey like my 74a Fu's were...

[SweetCatarina]

If Jason is riding Manx wheels, how old are they and in what condition?

It wouldn't matter if they were square & made of stone. Jason would find a way to be just as fast!

[Speedo]

It wouldn't matter if they were square & made of stone. Jason would find a way to be just as fast!

That's funny!
But so true.

Some people can ride...anything.

[Formerlyproductive]

inluv- Go with the 75a for distance. The softer wheel wheel be better for distance. When I skated across the USA in 83' we used 70mm Kryptonics. I would have killed for an 83mm Blast Wave in 75a.
The light weight core is supper nice for distance I would think.

[SeismicDan]

inluv- Go with the 75a for distance. The softer wheel wheel be better for distance. When I skated across the USA in 83' we used 70mm Kryptonics. I would have killed for an 83mm Blast Wave in 75a.
The light weight core is supper nice for distance I would think.

Gary is probably referring to the 85mm Speed Vent (available in 75A and 79A) or the 78mm Blast Wave (available in 75A, 79A and 83A). Both wheels are poured over our proprietary lightweight core.

BTW, inluvwithsara, could we please see a photo of Sara?

[cbark]

I've been a huge fan of zig zags but I think I'm gonna have to switch soon cause all my zigs seem to chunk after a month of hard riding

Don't know what "hard riding" is to you Karl, but I've never had a chunking problem with Manx, Zigs, or Seismic/3DM. Only exception are wheels sliced by glass in the street.

It's nice to have some wheels that I can really trust and know I won't have to replace every six months.

I got my 1st pair of Manx in 2003. I only use them for special occasions now, but they are still without a single chunk, same for my very 1st pair of Zigs which are now coned down to the same shape as those Gen-1 Manx. I still have a few very coned but unchunked sets of original Avalons as well.

I like how the zig zags feel but so many of them just fall apart. I put a pair of greens on the front three weeks ago and they are already chunking and shredding. I see it happen all the time, my friend got a new Axe complete this summer: the zig zags had a huge chunk missing after three days!

Please tell us how you chunked and shredded Zigs in 3 weeks??? Back your statements up with some more info... A newbie reader would interpret your comments to mean Zigs are some crappy wheel to stay away from. That is complete BS! How can you be a "fan" of a wheel that is useless after 3 weeks and you say this happens "all the time"???

cbark

[enemy combatant]

karls reason for posting his very own and very subjective observations might be a totally different one,of course he forgets that he is harming biz here,but does he care?

It didn't seem to bother you so much that you didn't get a dig in about Retros.

I don't care if you think it is "harming biz". If the boards you build snap and the axles you put out there break, I want to hear about it. That info needs to be out there so it that it can save people from a lot of grief.

Unbiased reviews by real people, instead of the same ol', same ol' builders hype and bought and paid for silence from sponsored riders is what we need more of. If it "harms biz" then tough sh*t.

[EBasil]

Ease off, fellas! Please.

If you sift the wheat and the chaff in this thread a little, you will find some Outstanding thought, input and information about skateboard wheels. Less Ford v. Chevy than "de colores". (My metaphors are my own.)

Talk about the wheels and do your best to leave the sniping at one another for the chat rooms or PM system.

[inluvwithsara]

BTW, inluvwithsara, could we please see a photo of Sara?

Sara and Kaylee(Kaylee is the Aussie Shep)

[Xgecko]

while I'm not Karl nor do I play him "on TV" I have had issues with Limes I coned out a rear pair/set in one 2 hour session of dodging cones...I don't like the feeling of lemon/oranges as compared to green/yellow hotspots though I know I am faster on Zigs I've timed myself through the same course on each wheel set but I still prefer the feel of Seismic thane I am in hopes that the Black ops thane will give me the comfort I have with Hotspots and the speed I have with Zigss

[SweetCatarina]

while I'm not Karl nor do I play him "on TV" I have had issues with Limes I coned out a rear pair/set in one 2 hour session of dodging cones...I don't like the feeling of lemon/oranges as compared to green/yellow hotspots though I know I am faster on Zigs I've timed myself through the same course on each wheel set but I still prefer the feel of Seismic thane I am in hopes that the Black ops thane will give me the comfort I have with Hotspots and the speed I have with Zigss

Xgecko..... I am curious about your height, weight, riding style.
Can you post a picture of yourself on your board riding through cones or whatever you do in your sessions?
Maybe I am being totally clueless here, but.... how does one "cone out" a set of limes??

[Xgecko]

my avatar shows me on a heelside. I'm 6'1" 210ish (I'm actually getting closer to 200lbs) I consider my style to be pretty smooth, at least that's what I try to emulate...I look at slalom the same way I do hardboot snowboard carving, smooth controlled turns fast as I can. I mostly skate a hybrid to tight hybrid. The first time I skated on Limes I took a brand new set and after two hours of running a wandering parking lot hybrid my wheels looks like a set of Mig's wheels. I have never worn out a set of wheels that fast before or since. Now mind you I'm old, slow and not very good but I like to have fun

[SweetCatarina]

I know that when there is a problem with a product, communication is essential.
Now, if the manufacturer is contacted & basically tells you to "F" off, that's a whole different ball game.

I think most board builders, wheel pourers, etc.... stand behind their product & want happy customers, but if there is a problem & you don't let it be known to the person that made that product, how are they ever going to know?

Bashing a product before contacting the manufacturer 1st is not the way to handle a problem.

I just got done talking to Jack & he said something that made perfect sense. Not everyone has the same riding style, nor does everyone ride the same type of pavement, wheels are going to wear down & wear out..... c'mon....... they're made of urethane.
I have a nice gash in one of my wheels from hitting a pyramid shaped rock last Sunday while pumping furiously for the car...... I also have one hell of a shiner under my right eye.
I don't blame the wheel or the manufacturer, I blame the rock!

I'm just a silly girl who took up slalom skateboarding not all that long ago, but there is a right way to go about things & there is a wrong way. I'll admit, I'm not always the most tactful of the bunch, but I'd like to be able to read something constructive on this thread from the people that have been doing this way longer than I have. I want to learn something I didn't already know. I want these threads to be informative when I click on them. Is that too much to ask?

[Paul from cambridge]

Thanks...I am looking for a wheel for distance skating and liked my friend's 85mm speedvents...I am running Lime Bigzigs which are great...I was just eyeing the 85mm and thought maybe I might get the 75a's but was worried that they might be too pokey like my 74a Fu's were...

I personally have done some tests with distance skating and various wheel compounds. I have determined that the higher rebound stuff rolls WAY better downhills and on flats and lighter wheels are way quicker uphill (my test was 40 km downhill, 160 km flat and one particular hill that took 6 hours of skating to climb to the top (the mountain pass from kelowna to merrit bc canada) In every situation it was benifitial speed wise to go with a smaller higher rebound urethane then a larger less rebound wheel better capable of rolling over sticks and stones.
I used to Black ops wheel for the Ribbon of green ultimate endurance race last weekend** because it felt closer to the 75 mm over obstacles but it weight merely a few grams more than the 70mm zigzags. The cores save nearly 70 grams to a regular style core on a similar diameter wheel. This is a big deal in my opinion when doing steep climbs.
I would suggest going to the 85mm purple wheels for distance over the roughest of terrain. I personally would use 83a blast waves but I don't mind skipping off debris. The last large trip I did I was on 86a/83a wheels over horrible terrain (1/4 inch deep pathement with pits averaging a 1/2 inch!!! OUCH) I'm always about speed but I think the 85mm speedvents should be more than comfortable and WAY faster than the 75a wheels made of the less rebound urethanes.
If the roads you are on are smooth, then I would suggest dropping down a size to the blastwaves(78mm). even using the harder duro blast waves (83a)
Definatley the Black ops over the classic formula. It feels good and it does good times for me and theres not allot of difference in style as far as a wheels perspective goes in distance skating (there is lots of difference but it doesn't change how to wheel rolls)


**Oh yeah I won the rouge race. It wasn't an easy distance race as it had the steepest climbs of any I have been to and it also had some pretty technical decents. reminiscent of some speedboard races.
www.roguerace.com (some pictures)

[donald20]

It didn't seem to bother you so much that you didn't get a dig in about Retros.

I don't care if you think it is "harming biz". If the boards you build snap and the axles you put out there break, I want to hear about it. That info needs to be out there so it that it can save people from a lot of grief.

Unbiased reviews by real people, instead of the same ol', same ol' builders hype and bought and paid for silence from sponsored riders is what we need more of. If it "harms biz" then tough sh*t.

i also saw
that therre is a more healthy discussion about wheeels IN GENERAL going on now,which i applaud to.
i feel the need though to reply to some accusations and false statements done by enemy combatat,whoever that is.

#1 boards i build snap:

after having done over 600 decks up to date and being in the know of 4 boards that didn't snap,but gave in due to the riders weight i really don't feel so bad about my history.
first off a foamcore can't just snap,everybody who build foamcores with the airex foamcore i use can underline that statement for sure.it needs violent force and bending the board way over 90 degrees at the point where it is supposed to break.as an example please go back to the pics george pappas posted about his board that got run over by a bus.then come back to this thread and check back on boards snapping.

however there have been returns also at other well known companies through the years.
maybe its not so good when you are doing stuff that's not american?
needless to say that any customer who apporached me with a valid complaint got taken care of immediately and no hassles involved.


#2 axles break
i saw axles breaking on almost evry truck that has ever been made.be it high grade cnc stuff or regular cost trucks.
so where's the big deal?
all customers who had a problem with their gog trucks that all came from a certain batch,received a free upgrade and shipping costs paid too.
i know another company that sells those parts to the customers once they broke.

besides that the gog is the state of the art truck these days.


#3 bought and paid for silence by riders
that is a very gross and totally unfounded statement which i think puts the credibility of any rider in question.
i do not want to comment on this false accusation at all
instead i would rather suggest that you bring this impression to the riders-you believe are treated that
way-attention.
best way to do it is at a race.
they will gladly answer your inquiries.
here is a list of folks you can ask how much they get to remain silent:
dave pirnack
chris barker
zak maytum
jim weatherwax
cat young
jeff goad
jason mitchell
greg fadell
chris bara
eddy martinez

if you are from the canadian region please ask
mike cividino