Downhill Helmet

[davidp]

Originally Posted by nyuklhed

I'll measure the helmet without pads tonight, i'll let you know

thanks gabe

also, heres a quote from a email i received a few minutes ago from Matt Kelly, the owner of the company:

"I think that if we don't go too crazy with major shape changes, that we could have 300 helmets fully done and ready to ship from my usa warehouse by Feb 1st. for the 2010 season(with the stiffened and modified chinguard, better chinstrap, flip up visor). Plus we would have some prototypes to test in October."

stoked!!!!!!!!!!!!

also, colors choices now include RED w/black stripe.

[Metalhead8290]

alright man, thanks

[neuros]

David, just wondering as to why you prefer D-Rings for straps over injection-molded clips, or even metal ones?

[davidp]

Originally Posted by neuros

David, just wondering as to why you prefer D-Rings for straps over injection-molded clips, or even metal ones?

its not a huge deal, but plastic clips can break or come undone..metal d-rings can't..d-rings are what is used for motor-sports to make sure the helmet does'nt come off during a multiple-impact fall.

[davidp]

next big order is coming in soon.

pre-orders have already claimed almost all the helmets.

got the helmet in RED now for all you red leather, color-coordinated people.

email me to grab yours.

you can paypal me $175 for helmet w/visor and shipping to anywhere within continental US


also, a friend who normally wears a XXL tried on the helmet yesterday and did'nt fit..so its looking like this helmet can fit S-XL...you double XL people are out of luck...sorry...

[Metalhead8290]

damn, i thought i had finally found a good helmet for me and my big dome.

[thokk2]

Oh man, red would match my leathers too. So would white... hmmm... choices... choices.

[wooden]

i like everything i see EXCEPT the LACK of coverage on the back of the head. It looks as though the entire soft spot on your head is exposed, which is a big NO-NO in skateboarding. It's far too easy to smack your head on a curb the wrong way and really #### up your neck wearing a helmet with as little protection in the back (see SpeedAir helmets). A Charly No-Limit is not much better in terms of protection in the back, but at least it covers most of it.

I'd like to see more back end coverage in the DH-specific helmet as I was wearing a SpeedAir during my crash that broke my femur. I had the helmet on tight, almost tight enough to be uncomfortable due to the strap, and it fell off in the crash and I came to under a car with no idea where my helmet or myself were.

[Rob Shook]

Originally Posted by Bookworm

If I can interject about the speed of impact. when you fall your head doesn't impact the road at 30, 40, or 50 mph, it hits at the speed it falls to. it then has to endure sliding along the road at said speed, so unless you run headfirst into an obstacle at said speeds, this helmet should provide sufficient protection.

even motorcycle helmets are only rated for impact at 30ish mph.

Originally Posted by davidp

as safe if not safer than the para-gliding helmets that is based on the amount of EPS foam and the overall rigidity of the helmet.

ALSO....i've had the chance to compare this helmet to a charly no-limit, a Icaro 4flight and various BMX full-faces and this helmet has more hard EPS foam than those...the predator has 1" of hard foam, while the para-gliding helmets have around 1/4" to 1/2"...the mountain bike helmets i've looked at close have about the same about of foam as the predator. so in the end i would liken this helmet more to a BMX or DH-mountain bike helmet than what most people think of as a kayak helmet.



i have been downhilling for 10 years, racing for 7 years and gone through numerous helmets and smacked my head in a good variety of them....i would NOT be trying to sell this helmet if i felt it was'nt safe enough, thats the bottom line. I feel strongly in these and i think that anyone else that actually sees this helmet in person would agree with me.

the amount of foam doesn't decide how safe the helmet is, the ratings do. I personally dont trust my skull with paragliding specific helmets because they are designed to be lightweight 1 impact helmets. they do not claim to be as safe as bike helmets and motorcycle helmets, just like kayaking helmets are not as safe as paragliding, biking, or motorcycle helmets, based on the ratings.

If this company makes a skate-specific speedboarding helmet, i would like to see a dot rating for bouncing/skidding across pavement, an integrated faceshield, and a smaller shell so we are not bobble heads. a more substantial bell drop would be a good model (this is the helmet i use; but i would not trust even this if i were consistently going over 50).

im sorry, but 7 years of skate experience doesnt make you more knowledgeable about the safety of helmets. while this is a very cool looking helmet, it is made for a sport that does not have the potential for heavy impacts with hard surfaces.

I hope this post doesn't make me seem like an ass; if you want me to stop posting here let me know. we could certainly make a thread to discuss the safety of kayak helmets; i think it is something that needs to be debated.

[davidp]

as far as back of head coverage, that is a concern of mine as all, for me the helmet comes to the base of my skull in the back, all the helmets i've used previous to this one were the same, only helmet i've seen thats different is the Icaro 4flight, which has the deadly point on the back. i feel that the coverage is good enough and that the cut of the helmet actually helps when tucking.

Rob, no please keep posting here, criticism is ok, i just don't like the mindless, immature banter that consumes most of this website. i have a question for you...what if i never told you this helmet for made for kayaking? what if i never told you it had a CE water-sports rating? would you think it was safe then?

The Bell Drop has a ATSM downhill racing standard for mountain bikes, which i think is the closest standard to what we need. the ultimate problem is there is not certified standard for what we do, so everything else is guessing...

I have been talking with the owner of Predator helmets regarding this very issue and i asked him if he would be willing to get the SIX certified for CPSC standards or ATSM and if he though the helmet would pass the certification process. now i'm no helmet engineer nor do I know the specifics of what exactly these standards entail....Matt told me the reason he has'nt done this is because of $$$....he does'nt have the $10,000 nessesary to get the helmet certified. BUT, he is very confident that the helmet would pass ATSM standards no problem...these helmets are made in the same factory in China that produces Giro, Remedy, and other high-end helmets...the quality of construction is top-notch and on par with any other hi-end mountain bike or BMX specific helmet.

also, you are asking for contradictory things...you want a DOT certified helmet, but you want it in a small, non-bubble head size....which would be RAD...but i'm not sure thats possible...thats why DOT helmets look "bubblehead" is because of the higher thickness of foam and shell....i don't think you could get both things....who knows, mayble its possible, i'm not a helmet engineer, but i don't think it is. i do know the DOT standards are made to withstand multipule impacts from metal objects, something encountered more in motorcycle racing, hence the extra bulk and weight of a DOT helmet.


i think in the end it comes down to this:

helmets and the protection of your head is a very personal matter. I think i've provided enough information on this thread for people to make their own decision regarding if they want this helmet or not....if you don't feel this helmet is safe enough for you, totally understandable....wear what you feel comfortable in.

wooden...are you the guy that jon huey told me about on the phone...outlaw race, car pulled out of driveway with no warning, you went under it? while the helmet could go down a little further, and i will discuss the possibility of this with Matt, the non-pointy shape of the helmet gives it more strength then something like the speedair that you are using...

[mrmagoo]

Originally Posted by robshookphoto

while this is a very cool looking helmet, it is made for a sport that does not have the potential for heavy impacts with hard surfaces.

Actually Kayaking really does involve some good impacts against hard surfaces. Going into a big class 4 rapid, getting flipped and smashed into a rock with a wall of water throwing you against it could be a fairly good impact.

[(Android)]

I Might be intereseted in getting one of these... Do you still have any, and is clear the only visor color?
Thanks

[Rob Shook]

Originally Posted by davidp

Rob, no please keep posting here, criticism is ok, i just don't like the mindless, immature banter that consumes most of this website. i have a question for you...what if i never told you this helmet for made for kayaking? what if i never told you it had a CE water-sports rating? would you think it was safe then?

I asked because some people would get mad for "bashing" their product. I'm looking for a discussion, not an argument, so its cool you see it the same way.

If you had never told me this helmet was for kayaking, I would have asked what the rating is. I found the ce en 1385 rating on the site you linked us to. The helmet does look very safe, i just dont think the safety standard lives up to the appearance. I see what you mean though, I am trying hard to keep from basing my opinion on the fact that it is made for kayaking, but rather how it is tested.

Originally Posted by davidp

The Bell Drop has a ATSM downhill racing standard for mountain bikes, which i think is the closest standard to what we need. the ultimate problem is there is not certified standard for what we do, so everything else is guessing...

comfort-wise, i agree. i get out of breath while skating hard and the mountain bike helmets let me breathe in a way motorcycle and motorcross helmets restrict. But in reality, I would feel safer in a dot rated lid. If/when I am consistently hitting 55, 60+, I will probably get an afx-ds 37 and sacrifice the comfort and visibilty for the added safety. But the dot/snell rating seems better for what we do than ASTM.

Originally Posted by davidp

he does'nt have the $10,000 nessesary to get the helmet certified. BUT, he is very confident that the helmet would pass ATSM standards no problem

that's encouraging, and I'll keep in it mind, I just don't want to make my head the test subject...
what i would really like to see is a helmet with the same visibilty and aerodynamics as this and the drop but also with the dot/snell rating. It may not be workable, as it may just make it big like other helmets, but why shouldnt we just make a new class of dh-skateboard helmets and steal the previously established dot rating?

Originally Posted by davidp

also, you are asking for contradictory things...you want a DOT certified helmet, but you want it in a small, non-bubble head size....which would be RAD...but i'm not sure thats possible...thats why DOT helmets look "bubblehead" is because of the higher thickness of foam and shell....i don't think you could get both things....who knows, mayble its possible, i'm not a helmet engineer, but i don't think it is. i do know the DOT standards are made to withstand multipule impacts from metal objects, something encountered more in motorcycle racing, hence the extra bulk and weight of a DOT helmet.

exactly, i'm not sure if it is possible. but, the fact that motorcross helmets are rated with DOT is encouraging. the problem is they have more jaw protection than we need, and less visibility. a helmet with more opening at the face would scale weight, and leaving the thick shell would keep the rating we want for the safety of our domes...

Originally Posted by davidp

helmets and the protection of your head is a very personal matter.

except for sanctioned racing, where standards are decided. would/should this helmet be allowed at maryhill? this question should not be answered based off of the safety of other helmets allowed there (bike helmets, paragliding helmets) - aka the should part should carry more weight.

Originally Posted by mrmagoo

Actually Kayaking really does involve some good impacts against hard surfaces. Going into a big class 4 rapid, getting flipped and smashed into a rock with a wall of water throwing you against it could be a fairly good impact.

while this is true, the question is whether or not the helmet protects against that. the rating does not require it to.

This European Standard specifies requirements for helmets for canoeing and white water sports for use in waters of classes 1 to 4 as classified by the International Canoe Federation. The levels of protection recognize that most fatalities in canoeing and white water sports result from drowning after concussion and not from brain damage.

[*SWEET*]

What I keep on thinking when riding a skateboard wearing a helmet like mine that lots of people consider as "unsafe" is that this:

is a helmet that HAS the ratings for a serious impact on concrete...
So what do I have to think about helmets ratings? Look at this picture of a helmet considered to be adequate for an impact on concrete and compare it with an Icaro, a No-Limit or this one and pick yours

you prefer a motorcycle helmet with DOT rating?
Fine this one has it...


So what is the safest? an Icaro or these ones?

[green]

IGSA rules for helmets are this: it has ANY sort of chin guard, and when the helmet is strapped, they tug on the strap 3 times hard if it stays together, its cleared.

[speshlspeclsteak]

horay for safety standards !

[*SWEET*]

All that I'm saying is that the DOT rating means absolutly nothing outside of the US... It's a rating made only for the US and a rating with international value would have to be found in order to give some credit to a rule about helmets...
For some time in France DOT AND SNELL helmets were not allowed during the french championship. Simply coz it is not recognized in France... (That rule was erased due to the large protest of the racers)
Want to come up with something? Create your own ratings for gravity sports and make it international otherwise every other thing will be useless and will mean nothing outside of the US.

[Rob Shook]

yeah, i see what youre ssayin. I'm using dot as an example because testing is more rigorous than astm, ce, etc. we should have a dh-specific helmet, but dont. in the meantime, dot ratings in a paragliding shaped (not size or weight of course) helmet sound sweet.

[wooden]

Originally Posted by davidp

wooden...are you the guy that jon huey told me about on the phone...outlaw race, car pulled out of driveway with no warning, you went under it? while the helmet could go down a little further, and i will discuss the possibility of this with Matt, the non-pointy shape of the helmet gives it more strength then something like the speedair that you are using...

That would be me, yes, sorry I didn't see your response earlier. I was using the SpeedAir on a fluke, I had locked my leathers, Bell Drop, and gloves in my car along with my keys () and had to borrow everything except a board. I would never wear a SpeedAir in normal circumstances, I just didn't feel safe in them, but at the time it was all I could get that fit (relatively).

After examining the helmet post-crash (actually just a few days ago), I came to the conclusion that the helmet did NOT stay on my head, despite it being a snug fit and the strap being sufficiently tightened down, because the buckle is faulty. On every helmet I've seen, you can yank on the buckle as hard as you want and it won't unbuckle itself. The SpeedAir, however, fails this test as you can pull on the buckle with a relatively low amount of force and it will come undone. Obviously D-rings and a strap don't suffer from this problem, but I've never seen this in a helmet and frankly, I'm surprised anyone wears it if the buckle comes undone so easily. In the crash, the impact must have sent the helmet up and off my head, pulling on the straps hard enough to undo the buckle and pop off of my head; I'm extremely lucky to have rag-dolled without a helmet on and come out of it without a single scrape or bruise. My leg could've faired better, but legs heal, brains don't.

As far as coverage on the back of your head goes, I just don't get why a helmet shouldn't cover the soft spot right underneath the bottom of your skull, the very top of your spine. My large Bell Drop covers this very nicely and doesn't restrict head movement at all.

And with certifications, if a helmet can pass the mountain biking certs (ASTM?), the helmet is plenty safe for DH as far as I'm concerned. DOT rating is nice, but it requires so much more bulk that it may or may not be worth it. I know I'd rather wear my Bell Drop over my AFX FX-37 any day (weight, comfort, etc.).

The owner of the SpeedAir I used wore it at DB this year, was IGSA involved with this? I feel they would've caught the bad strap if they were.

Wear what you're comfortable in, I know I'll never wear a SpeedAir again, my Bell Drop does just fine and was a hell of a lot more comfortable...

[green]

Danger Bay is not IGSA. Sucks about your crash. Thats kind of rediculous about the speed airs. But those are ripoffs of para helmets too. If you are going para, go icaro or charly.