Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Evo- front wheel liftoff

  1. #1
    Fresh Fish bichinbrasilian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Age
    23
    Posts
    47
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Evo- front wheel liftoff

    Hey,

    I'm pretty new to DH and I've been working on my DH setup :

    I have a 2009 Evo with Purple 4 otangs and bear grizzlies.

    i just put some venoms on it to try and fix my problem but to no avail.

    whenever i lean on the board the front wheel tends to lift off . (i dont think this is a good thing....)

    Right now i want to be able to carve a bit to control some speed yet im afraid this might bite me in the ass...

    also my back wheels seems to drift out a bit on hard turns.

    i have no wedged risers on it and im running with stock grizzlies. venom elim red boardside and green barrels roadside.

    im basically broke right now (who isnt) and cant afford new trucks, i do have a set of 180 50s randalls lying around though.

    i tried loosening the bears yet im running out of kingpin room....


    any suggestions? thanks.



  2. #2
    Concrete Kahuna CasterTown's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UCSB/ Redwood City
    Posts
    2,231
    Rep Power
    35

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    This happens because the dewedge in the back gives you much better leverage over the rear truck. You can balance it out by running harder bushings in the back. It should not be a problem though once you get up to speed.
    Team DAVE

  3. #3
    Addicted Cruiser Old Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    FWTX
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,052
    Rep Power
    28

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    Quote Originally Posted by CasterTown View Post
    This happens because the dewedge in the back gives you much better leverage over the rear truck.
    It does? I thought the opposite was true.
    If you can't hit bottom, wear the sides out.

  4. #4
    Concrete Kahuna xjweezyx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    NY
    Age
    16
    Posts
    2,056
    Rep Power
    88

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Guy View Post
    It does? I thought the opposite was true.
    i think because the dewedging makes it lower(closer to the foot platform) and that is why you have superior leverage. i think your thinking of turning ability. you can have surpierior leverage and a bigger turning radius. correct me if i am wrong
    Nelson Longboards- http://nelsonlongboards.com/index.html
    Phat Deanz-http://phatdeanz.com/default.aspx
    ECCS-http://eastcoastcoreskates.com/
    SZ-http://www.surf-rodz.com/
    TEAM TANGY
    www.youtube.com/user/TeamTangy

  5. #5
    Addicted Cruiser Old Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    FWTX
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,052
    Rep Power
    28

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    According to the Randal website ( Randal Skateboard Trucks - General Truck FAQ ), dewedging makes your trucks turn less. Is that not analogous to, or because of, having less leverage over them?
    If you can't hit bottom, wear the sides out.

  6. #6
    MagicMagicMagicMagicMagic Capo di Tutti Posto Bookworm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Freshly Oxygenated Red Blooded Silverfish Hater
    Age
    21
    Posts
    12,307
    Rep Power
    433

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    I loled so hard at this thread.

    Alright.

    The evo nose is wedged. The difference between a wedged truck and a higher degree baseplate is the pivot, on a highly wedged truck the front wheel will have a tendency to "lift" since it's no longer sweeping side to side but now has an "up" component.

    on an evo, the tail is dewedged, causing it to lean a lot farther relative to the amount of sweep. This means that the tail is ALWAYS "drifting" since it's not pivoting in line with the front truck. Only symmetrical setups can have "no" drift. The back wheels have to have sideways slip in order to track properly behind the front. This does make for a very nice and predictable setup.

    basically, you are experiencing the same thing as every other evo owner.

    You have one of the winningest boards in downhill, enjoy it, but get some crails.
    ♦♦♦MagicBearings♦♦♦
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mrlongboardude View Post
    Silverfish is not for everyone. Common side effects may include trolling, vomiting, nausea, and the 10charthingy. Tell your doctor if your rash increases or if you develop a fever while using Silverfish. Remember to ask your doctor if Silverfish is right for you.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Down & Dirty View Post
    When I die, I want to be buried in this thread

    [8:53 AM] Anton Milioti: they sell longboards there with slides built in them
    [3:54 PM] landyachtz27: yea but i skiched at 60mph on my loaded durvish

  7. #7
    Concrete Kahuna SteveC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Under down under - Hobart
    Age
    32
    Posts
    7,280
    Rep Power
    174

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    sigh...



    Split-axis boards simply no longer turn about their centre, they rotate around a point that's closer to the tail.
    (where a line through the axles cross)
    if they were drifting all the time evo's and 99% of slalom boards would be slow as mud.

    A low-axis truck loses less force to pushing the axle inwards, it simply leans.

    a 0° truck loses no energy to turning
    a 90° one loses all of it - and can not be moved by the board.

  8. #8
    Concrete Kahuna CasterTown's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UCSB/ Redwood City
    Posts
    2,231
    Rep Power
    35

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Guy View Post
    It does? I thought the opposite was true.
    Dewedging gives you more leverage. Not more turn. For example, a 90a bushing in a 50 degree truck will feel much harder than a 90a bushing in a 20 degree truck despite the fact that the 20 degree truck turns much less. I'm talking specifically about how easy it is to physically lean the board whether that translates into turn or not. That has nothing to do with it.
    Team DAVE

  9. #9
    Concrete Kahuna SteveC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Under down under - Hobart
    Age
    32
    Posts
    7,280
    Rep Power
    174

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    This thread has a good name so I'm going to attempt to put a good answer here.

    Evos are +14 -16.


    They turn about +15 -15 when you stand on them - depending on board-age and weight
    There's a good argument this makes high-axis trucks start misbehaving, it's certainly borderline at 65°. The further above 45° you go the more vibration, bumps, rocks etc get turned into steering.

    Dewedge, or run a lower pivot-axis front truck. (Rdh/JimZ, the prominent trucks from the era, both 35° - end up the very classic and very tasty 50&#176
    42° trucks make for a quite responsive nose (57&#176, and can be turned down without gaining much height, which isn't inherently a bad thing either.


    Then we come to the tail -
    The board is built around slalom theory, and is, in an odd way, a big - low - slalom board.
    You really can pick whatever you like here, just be aware of what it's doing.
    28=13° 35=20° 42=27° 50=35° 60=45°

    Well, the lower this number, the less steering created by the tail...
    This can have a significant effect on turn radius, and on how you need to run it's bushings.

    With a large gap between the pivot-axis, say 50/20 the larger the difference between the bushing's needs to be in order for the wheels to be driven at the road at the same rate.

    The practical way to test this out is to drive one rail town with your toes, if the nose wheel lifts - it needs a tighter tail, or a looser nose, or a bit of both.
    Ultimately you run a harder bushing in the tail, or a softer in the front, but you can usually get it sweet with decent bushings and a bit of testing.

  10. #10
    Addicted Cruiser Old Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    FWTX
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,052
    Rep Power
    28

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    Quote Originally Posted by CasterTown View Post
    Dewedging gives you more leverage. Not more turn. For example, a 90a bushing in a 50 degree truck will feel much harder than a 90a bushing in a 20 degree truck despite the fact that the 20 degree truck turns much less. I'm talking specifically about how easy it is to physically lean the board whether that translates into turn or not. That has nothing to do with it.
    Dewedging isn't the same as a 20* versus a 50* truck because the angle of the entire truck relative to the plane of the deck changes rather than the angle of the hanger relative to the baseplate. I'm just having a hard time understanding how more leverage isn't going to mean more turn if all other factors, such as baseplate angle, bushing durometer, and truck tightness are the same.
    If you can't hit bottom, wear the sides out.

  11. #11
    Concrete Kahuna NC longboarder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    north carolina
    Age
    19
    Posts
    1,696
    Rep Power
    22

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    my board does the samething. when your going faster it doesnt happen.
    "in the end all we are, are chalk lines on the concrete drawn only to be washed away" - Five Finger Death Punch
    Setups
    Earth Hellfire- 49*/49* Buzzed - Raceforms
    Earth Mini - Bear 852 - Boogers
    Earth Skateboard Company

  12. #12
    Concrete Kahuna SteveC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Under down under - Hobart
    Age
    32
    Posts
    7,280
    Rep Power
    174

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Guy View Post
    Dewedging isn't the same as a 20* versus a 50* truck because the angle of the entire truck relative to the plane of the deck changes rather than the angle of the hanger relative to the baseplate. I'm just having a hard time understanding how more leverage isn't going to mean more turn if all other factors, such as baseplate angle, bushing durometer, and truck tightness are the same.
    what?

    the baseplate-riser-board - is all bolted together.
    how it gets the hanger to a given angle is irrelevant to how much it will turn.


    of course more leverage will lean a board over further if all other factors are identical.
    assuming it doesn't bind and lift. given this, it will turn more.
    I think there's a missed point here somewhere

  13. #13
    AJ
    AJ is offline
    Concrete Kahuna AJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,468
    Rep Power
    158

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    it happens when you stand on your skateboard motionless at full lean.
    It doesnt happen skateboarding downhill.

  14. #14
    Addicted Cruiser Old Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    FWTX
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,052
    Rep Power
    28

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
    what?

    the baseplate-riser-board - is all bolted together.
    how it gets the hanger to a given angle is irrelevant to how much it will turn.


    of course more leverage will lean a board over further if all other factors are identical.
    assuming it doesn't bind and lift. given this, it will turn more.
    I think there's a missed point here somewhere
    I realize that it all functions as a unit. I'm not sure how to explain my point more clearly - that's not a jab at you; the fault could be mine. I'm not sure, though, that I agree with your statement, "how it gets the hanger to a given angle is irrelevant to how much it will turn." I could be wrong there, too; I'm certainly no engineer.

    Edit: Whether I'm right or wrong, this debate does little to help the OP; I think A.J.'s advice is right on, so let's stop straining out gnats.
    Last edited by Old Guy; 11-08-2009 at 10:13 PM.
    If you can't hit bottom, wear the sides out.

  15. #15
    Concrete Kahuna rodgon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Sunny San Diego
    Posts
    5,188
    Rep Power
    247

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    evos need a waaaay lower degree angle truck baseplate in the front in order to feel good.

    50* makes it 65* which is waaaaaaay too much steering. get a 35* basplate for 12$ and use that instead ( using the randal trucks you have).

    the back one at 50* makes it 35* which is fine for higher speeds, but with the correct bushing setup and the fixed front it makes for a nice carver at low speeds too.

    i personally have mine with a 42* front dewedged 7* since the 42* hanger behaves better with the 180 hangers IMO and it runs like a dream at low speeds with softer bushings and harder bushings for really high speeds.

    CASE IN POINT:
    get a lower baseplate front.

  16. #16
    Concrete Kahuna SteveC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Under down under - Hobart
    Age
    32
    Posts
    7,280
    Rep Power
    174

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff


  17. #17
    Fresh Fish bichinbrasilian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Age
    23
    Posts
    47
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Evo- front wheel liftoff

    ah, thanks for the help guys.

    the weathers been all rain this week, so i havent been able to test it out.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •