Which came first: The Ollie, or the Kicktail?

[Chainmaillekid]

I keep thinking, The ollie is such a weird thing. I don't think i know a single person who just figured it out. Whoever came up with it first must have been a madman.

Im asuming, just because the ollie is so abstract, that it came later. But what all did the kicktail do before the ollie?

[Bombsquad_Manny]

uhhh Kick turns and wheelies as they were called back then.

Kick tail definitely.

[rosewood thief]

in the 70's when skating was being defined, right after one of the "slumps" in skating history, tons of stuff was being invented. in 1974 i believe the urethane wheel was invented, and in 1976? the kicktail was invented and patented by a man whos name i forget. followed in 1978 by the ollie, those dates may be incorrect, but i know i got it in the right order

[Chainmaillekid]

uhhh Kick turns and wheelies as they were called back then.

Kick tail definitely.

Oh yeah!
Kick turns were probably used even before kingpin trucks.
And even when the kingpin came around, the trucks still probably sucked.

[zionboard]

I thought kingpins allways where around, since rollerskate trucks have kingpins and those where used in the beginning of skateboarding?

Bob Staton claims to have "invented" the first single kick deck (allthough he claims a lot), in the late 60's if I remember his bragging correct.

Since Alan "Ollie" Gelfand is said to have invented the ollie in a half-pipe, the kicktail seems to be invented first. It took untill Mullen to transform it into a flatland trick.

To me, the ollie on vert seems more of a natural evolution, where it goes with gravity more (and so looks less weird) than taking it to the flatground where it totally goes against gravity.

[Hot Wheels]

I could be wrong on some of this, but I was skating back in
the 1970's . I thought Larry Stevenson (Makaha Skateboards) came
up with kicktails around 1974 1975. The ollie was invented on Vert by
Gelfand (roughly 19788) as mentioned earlier ( at least he seems to get credit). On the
flats the early street skaters (doing Ollies) were Mark Gonzales, Natas Kapas and
Rodney Mullen. This was around (help me here sk8norcal or MSK) 1982 or 1983.


__________

[Fluere]

From everything I've heard, zionboard is correct. Gelfand invented the ollie on the half pipe, then of course Mullen on flatground.

Mullen truly was a pioneer of street skating inventing ollies, kickflips (then called magic flips), heelflips, tre flips, etc.

[Belegnole]

Hot Wheels is as close as any. I remember metal and clay and then eventually urethane. Within a year there were kick tails.

[msk]

The kicktail was invented in the late 60s by Richard Stevenson, and the patent awarded in 1971.

But what all did the kicktail do before the ollie?

As noted in the patent application, the kicktail did two things: By raising the end of the board, there was more clearance so that the tail didn't scrape when doing wheelies or 360s, and it also helped secure the foot for doing those moves.

I keep thinking, The ollie is such a weird thing. I don't think i know a single person who just figured it out. Whoever came up with it first must have been a madman.

The ollie, at least as originally done by Gelfand, was actually a pretty natural and obvious evolution. There used to be a move called a lipslide (not to be confused with what everyone calls a lipslide these days), done on banks, and later on vert, which involved going up to the lip of the bank, unweighting your rear foot, and pushing it hard sideways, resulting in the rear wheels sliding across the top of the bank. If you punched the board hard enough, and unweighted enough, the board would get airborne. This will even work on flat ground, although you'll only get an inch or two off the ground. It was pretty common for people doing lipslides to get a little air. Gelfand just figured out how to take it higher, and with more control, and then took it to vert...

[Belegnole]

The kicktail was invented in the late 60s by Richard Stevenson, and the patent awarded in 1971.

But when did the first kicktails hit the streets. I don't remember them before 73-74 (like i can actually remember those days that well). Having a patent means little as far as a product being produced and on the streets....By 76 there were 6 decks in my garage with tails. My favorite deck being the only one without..

[akimaveur]

random question but this question made me think of it...
who invented the ollie?

[Belegnole]

This guy

[msk]

But when did the first kicktails hit the streets. I don't remember them before 73-74 (like i can actually remember those days that well). Having a patent means little as far as a product being produced and on the streets....By 76 there were 6 decks in my garage with tails. My favorite deck being the only one without..

I didn't see many decks with kicktails in the early 70s, most were still flat. But then, this was an innovation that came out a few years after the market had died, and the vast majority of skateboards being sold at the time were toys. Makaha had them, and I believe G&S was also doing kicktails at the time. But for the most part, it was hard to find anything other than Nash and Black Knight boards if you didn't live at the beach in '71...

[Sector 9ine]

i thought i would put in my two cents t say that Mullen is a beast. He invented so many things, can do many things that not many others can even come close too. All of his flatground tricks like pogos and #### r insane.
just a lil fyi

[rayzor tattoos]

these types of posts scare me sometimes........
nothing against u bro
it is a shame that perhaps one of the most influential techniques, that is literally known by everyone and named after the guy, isn't commonplace knowledge to who invented it.

like watching kids ollie before they can even stand on a board or try to rock to fakie or 50/50 before they can kickturn on a ramp. i taught skating for many years and always stressed the evolution of skating and it's history. kids love it and so do i, plus u never know who to thank if u meet them......

andrecht-david andrecht
lien air-niel blender/ billy ruff?
indy air-duane peters?
cab-cab
540-mike mcgill

random names of others.......
stalemalski
hirsch
grisham
losi
el gato
jeff jones
jeff kendal
monty nolder
pineapple
ray bones roddriguez
john gibson
vb boys
toke team
groholsky
murph
plus many, many more

[stringtheory]

From the Bones movie, "Public Domain". Some 70's footage of Alan Gelfand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0czmfbnYos

[Army]

I way I've always heard it is that kicktails first appeared way deep in the early 70's when kids were cutting down old water skis into decks and some inventive (or lazy) kid left a portion of the ski's upturned nose on and voila: the kicktail was born.

[dunnersboarder]

who says u need a kicktail to ollie tho? i reckon the ollie came first then people thought to make a kicktail to make it easier. then again i wasnt even thouht about in the 70's when all u old vets were so...

[msk]

I way I've always heard it is that kicktails first appeared way deep in the early 70's when kids were cutting down old water skis into decks and some inventive (or lazy) kid left a portion of the ski's upturned nose on and voila: the kicktail was born.

i reckon the ollie came first then people thought to make a kicktail to make it easier.

The kicktail was invented in the late 60s (patent applied for in 1969), while the ollie wasn't invented until the mid/late 70s. The kicktail was designed specifically for foot placement and ground clearance while doing kickturns/wheelies/spins:

The present invention relates to skateboards and more specifically to a skateboard with an inclined lever that is conveniently positioned for a person to depress with one foot in order to facilitate spinning the skateboard through a wheelie maneuver or the like.

Skateboarding is regarding by many people as an ideal sport for developing agility, maneuverability, control, balance and coordination. Conventional skateboards have an elongated plank or board sized for supporting a person in a standing position and sets of fore and aft wheels secured beneath the board. The rear set of wheels is positioned inwardly from the skateboard trailing or rearward edge to constitute a rear overhand section of the board.

As imaginative people gradually created different acrobatic styles and competition became increasingly popular, the risk to a person of losing his balance and tumbling from the skateboard became increasingly more serious. Inexperienced people trying to accelerate the development of their skills in spinning through wheelies or the like would not infrequently topple from the skateboard and become injured. Consequently some parents discouraged their children from operating skateboards since skateboards became regarded by these parents as hazardous and a threat to physical well-being.

Two basic situations make conventional skateboards more dangerous than they ought to be. As shall be explained these two conditions result from the fact that the rear overhang section of the board is both too long and is aligned in coplanar relationship with the rest of the board. The overhang section must be sufficiently long to enable a skateboarder to rest his foot upon the overhang section in order to press it downwardly to tilt the skateboard. With the skateboard tilted the person is then capable of attempting to spin around through a wheelie maneuver or the like while using the rear wheels as a fulcrum. Unfortunately, the necessary length of the overhang section often causes it to bump or scrape on the ground when the skateboard is tilted through only a slight angle relative to the ground. As a result the person is often tossed off the skateboard.

The other basic potential danger confronting people arises when a person, attempting to practice a wheelie, shifts his weight to his rear foot. As the skateboard is increasingly tilted the person's balance becomes more difficult to maintain since his rear foot must maintain a firm purchase on an ever-increasing sharp incline. A point is often reached, before the overhang section scrapes against the ground, when the rear foot unavoidably slips or slides off the skateboard with the adverse result that the person loses his balance and is toppled from the skateboard.

As shall be fully described this invention is aimed at overcoming the above mentioned skateboard dangers and providing a skateboard that will enable a person to quickly and safely acquire skateboarding skills.

Briefly state this invention comprehends a skateboard constructed to assist a person in developing and enhancing balance and athletic skills with an accompanying much diminished risk of tumbling from the skateboard and becoming injured.

The skateboard is characterized by an elongated platform for supporting a person in a standing position, the platform having a forward end section, a rearward end section and a longitudinal center line. Sets of wheels are coupled to and positioned beneath both the forward end section and rearward end section of the elongated platform. A foot-depressible lever is coupled to the end section of the platform and is oriented so its plane slopes upwardly and rearwardly from the plane of the elongated platform.

To alter the skateboard from its normal traveling position and prepare it for a wheelie or spinning maneuver for example, the person shifts his weight rearwardly and depresses the lever in order to lift the platform upwardly until it assumes the desired optimum tilt.

[fear the wobbles]

a common misconception is that mullen invented the flatland ollie or the kickflip
infact he reamped the magicflip and made a different type of ollie, the ollie most of us use today was most similar to daewon songs flatground ollie around the same time as mullens