Basics of Art quoting by RodGon

[rodgon]

I have been approached by alot of artists wanting to know how much to charge for artwork, i thought i would type this little guide up for each and everyone of you artists and art seekers to see where you stand.

Part of the joy of being an artist is figuring things out and finding your worth amongst the other artists in the world, i hop this helps you all understand that your art is always worth more than you might think. and hopefully itll help those artists that are still shy outof their shells and make them confident enough to show their true potential. ^_^
------------------------
First things fist:

I do go by board size and i also do by level of detail, color or black and white, if they want it both sides or if they want it with clear grip or black with a design.

for every artist out there, even if its not skateboard art you have to understand the level of people your selling to first.

There are the young kids:
they cant afford anything big, yet they still want something cool, they wont appreciate it as much but are still willing to get it, With these guys you need to see if they will throw in stuff you can use ( or sell) and then have them add some cash to the sell.

There are the starving students:
These guys have a little bit more money to use and they have some cool gear as well to trade for it. They will appreciate the art a little more and some know the value of it, alot of them will never ride the boards you do for them and will keep them as wall art. lol cash and goodies works well with them as well.

High buyers, collectors:
These are guys that do not mind buying more expensive boards, or pimping out there setups, they wont mind paying a little more for the art and they will certainly appreciate it more than the previous people. They know the value of art more often then not and will not shy away from paying a fair price for some good stuff. These guys will also trade for the art and they tend to have some of the best gear you can sell later on for higher prices. so cash or trades work for them as well.

Pro bono, non profit organizations:
these companies have no budget and rely on people helping them out with artwork for free or just for the exposure. these are the best way to get noticed as an artist, and also to make a name for yourself. Fund raising campaigns and stuff of that sort fit into this area. if you feel generous and have some extra time i would recommend doing some of these.


Custom companies:
These are the custom mid level time builders, Legendary , Dopamine, Arcane, Nola, Cindrich etc. fall into this category, they will pay a good price for your work and will most likely keep you as an artist on hand for future projects that fit you. You can trade services for boards too since its easier for them to do that, but you might want to get money more than anything out of these transactions.

Bigger companies:
Comet, S9, Loaded and such. These guys already have a quote and a base price and know what to pay the artist. They will pay handsomely for the work becuase it will be used in a good amount. They do everything by the books and you will more likely than not be made to sign contracts and invoice them. Also its not as easy to get work done for them since they have several artists in hand already, so your work has to stand out for you. Normally competitions and design contests get you in the door for these jobs.


You will find out that you will have to charge different based on each client even if they fall into the same category. You will find out that some people just dont think art should cost that much either. and some that are completely the opposite. You will be putting your heart, soul and skills on to each drawing painting or design, so make it worth your while.

finding all this out is a right of passage to artists, that as well as getting shitty clients, getting ripped off and used are also experiences that you will go by as you grow as an artist ( it will happen no matter what ... trust me). you will find your worth as an artist as you progress, and as you get better you will want more money for your time. There is no set price for anything.

Its a whole equation of how many hours per work done formula. so if you take 4 hours to do a board you charge 40$ for your making 10$ per hour. you think thats worth it? if so then your good, if not then charge accordingly. ^_^

there is also the issue with making sure if your art is going to be reproduced for multiple things and applications, make sure to charge either royalties or have the company buy the rights to teh artwork from you for an amount no less than 30% of the final price you ahve quoted them.

hope this helps artist here. I love you guys ^_^ keep the art going!
and any thing i can do to help make sure to let the Rodgon know ^_^

[Gearfire]

You have experience talking. Spot on in every way. I could replace a few words like "board" with "body part" and your post could be my basic rundown for pricing tattoos.

[SoloRider]

QFT, great post and deserves a sticky IMO.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to rodgon again.

I tried at least.

[rodgon]

this effectively works for any type of art and board building as well. it would be helpful as a sticky, since i get at least 2 PMs a week about helping people quote for projects.

i dont mind responding but this way they would be able to see it over and over and refer other people to it.

[luftywaffles]

whoa that's just awesome rodgon.

+1

[rodgon]

here to help ^_^ and glad to be here

[rosewood thief]

well damn that looks familiar...

i love you rodgon!

[rodgon]

I hope this helps out those people that are always questioning how much to charge, as an artist i have found that to be the hardest part about being a freelancer. at first i would massively undercharge in the hopes of the client going with me for the job, out of desperation and wanting to be putting my name out there. after a while of being taken advantage of though... it gets really hard to keep that up.

[Biggie]

I understand what you are talking about, getting your work known is annoyingly confusing and brutal. I did a piece for a neighbour in water colors of a local beach spot. I spent way to much time on it, felt uneasy about quality. Charged them about 40 bucks and a homecooked meal. Worth it to me, until I went to the local frame shop / gallery. I found my piece going for 100 and get this my signature covered up by the tag. Learned the hardway and never sold pieces again.

[rodgon]

oooow... sorry to hear that man... that sucks.

you should have talked to your neighbor adn told them the meatloaf was overcooked. lol

live and learn, but never back away. thats how artists should live ^_^

[luftywaffles]

oooow... sorry to hear that man... that sucks.

you should have talked to your neighbor adn told them the meatloaf was overcooked. lol

live and learn, but never back away. thats how artists should live ^_^

you should have told them that you got food poisoning, and sued their arses!

[Sleeveless]

Rodgon, thanks for posting some real solid advice. And, thanks for sharing all your art here, too.

[rodgon]

more than welcome ^_^

anything i can do to help out fellow riders and artists.

[Blix]

And sticky it is, great writeup Rodgon.

[rodgon]

thanks blix. glad to help.

^_^

[flannelman]

one thing i have been wondering is where did you go for your formal training. how did you start. i want to be an Art teacher, and am an art major, but every time i see you do something, i wonder, "why cant i do that to" so is there any advice you can give me? i saw that you said making things for charities is a great way to get your work out there. how did you get into the niche of longboards. i am sure that you do tons of other stuff... and i digress. its late, so i look for your reply in the morning.

[rodgon]

one thing i have been wondering is where did you go for your formal training. how did you start. i want to be an Art teacher, and am an art major, but every time i see you do something, i wonder, "why cant i do that to" so is there any advice you can give me? i saw that you said making things for charities is a great way to get your work out there. how did you get into the niche of longboards. i am sure that you do tons of other stuff... and i digress. its late, so i look for your reply in the morning.

I got my formal training in the Art institute of California San Diego.
I went to school for Media Arts and Animation, but i noticed right away that they would focus mostly on digital formats of Animation, so 3D modeling and stuff of that sort. I was always more interested in the entire illustration side of art, but not knowing any better at that time i joined animation and its a decision i do not regret.

What i found out from going to that art school was that the classes were already very easy to pass, you had to make it a challenge for yourself in order to stand out. and to tell you the truth, i was horrible at art when i joined. for the first 2 years of my 4 year schooling i was constantly being surpassed by most of the other students with alot more art experience than me. ( i only found out i wanted to be n artist my senior year in highschool, was in route to become a law student). All these kids with 10+ years of experience drawing and painting intimidated the hell out of me. This had been their life goal! this is what they had directed their lives towards! they were prepared and i felt like a fool for even thinking i could catch up to them... i thuoght about quitting a lot of times, but im no quitter, never have and never will be.

I ended up manning up and making sure that if someone drew one page in their books, i would have 6! if a person did 1 sec of animation i would do 5! if there was a competition i would win it. I would work alot more than anyone i knew. And since i knew the classes were a breeze i was able to work on my own style and refining my skills through surrounding myself with better artists each time. I essentially would have to know what was going to be taught before it was taught for me to be able to understand it better than everyone else.

After the 4 years there i was very happy with were i ended up with my schooling. Never satisfied since i can always be better but was happy none the less.

As to how i got into doing work for the skateboard scene, it was a very interesting method.

I started my thread on art here on SF.

http://www.silverfishlongboarding.co...raphics-_.html

posted some work i had laying around and people started to ask for artwork, logos and deck art. i did some free work at first ( for clubs and foundations like skatefurther) all i asked is for them to advertise me in one way or another. Little by little it got to the point were i wasnt looking around for people to work with, they would look for me and its been great ever since. ^_^

[817]

rodgon- Man I read your latest post on your formal training but I have to say that you would be a great teacher. When I was in school I double majored in Economics and BFA in sculpture. One thing I always found missing was a way to teach artists the practical sides of the business. Many individuals, especially students, get wrapped up in high prices that substantiate their own pride and opinion of their work into those numbers. I feel like many people, not just skate artists, could benefit from that type of discussion.

You rule man keep up the great work and positive mentoring.... it always comes back to help in life.

[madeonlongisland]

I've been doing freelance graphic design for 5 years now & just got out of school for fine art. I just spent my 4th summer teach art and woodshop at a summer camp in the Hamptons, NY.

A lot of my pricing I just ask people "well how much is the other guy charging you?" and "does your other graphic designer skate to work everyday?". You must put a value on your work, but at the same time not give it away for free. You can still impress people if you do quick, cheap/free blow ups or tags on their boards. Some of my favorite mottos when it comes to art is "if its not perfect, its not worth it" but at the same time another classic is "when I had a shop, I was always the lowest bidder". Art is worth your time.

Another effective method I found is silk screening (my BFA had a concentration in printing, coolest art form on the planet imo). I take about 20 shirts down to the beach and hand them out for free, but make the people that I give them to (mainly girls or guys I see skating down the boardwalk) promise that they will check my portfolio and website out, which is a simple business card stapled to the tag of the shirt. I hate advertising Internet Service for Individuals and Business Internet Service - www.com on my clothing or boards, but just intrigue them with my logo enough should be able to make them google me.


check a few of my works out people, and see if I know what I'm talking about.
Stoked, TJ


Made on Long Island

[sickboyohwayoh]

came across this site randomly coz my stepson asked me if we could build a longboard and this thread caught my eye. i have to say that the initial post by RodGon is one of the most concise and informative forum posts i've read anywhere in the last couple years..my hat is off for sure. i've been a professional graphic designer for the last 14 years and i'd like to expand on the subject a little from my own experience if i may..
madeonlongisland touched on this too briefly in another excellent post. anyway, my basic point is, as an artist, never EVER sell yourself short! believe me this is something i do even to this day and i wish i didn't..you know how much time and effort you are putting into a piece of artwork, you know how much you think it's worth, so what is the point of accepting anything less? i still struggle with this myself because after years of staedy employment for someone else getting ripped off i'm slowly trying to build my own design company and i'm used to getting severely underpaid for what i do. there is an extremely fine line between pricing your work at less than what it's worth to try and get jobs in to get your name out there, and getting caught in the trap of "this guy does awesome work and you'll be able to talk his price down to next to nothing". anyways, sorry guys that was a bit of a ramble, but i'm typing this at 1.30 am saturday morning after an extremely stressful work week and i have a few beers in me!! haha
right..getting to the point, the plan i always start out with these days is to
(1) know right off the bat how long a job will take take you and how much you feel your work on it would be worth at a high-end level. then
(2) with that in mind ask yourself how much you are happy to make for the job that you feel is a satisfactory reward for your efforts, and finally
(3) add $100 onto the amount you'd be happy with and quote for the job.
i've found that this approach gives you $100 leeway to let the client haggle the price..if they are willing to pay the full amount you quote then you've made $100 more than you'd be happy with, if they haggle you down the extra $100 then you're still making what you wanted and they think they've talked you into a deal that's better for them.
if someone is unwilling to pay you what you realistically think your work is worth, then i've gotta say..sometimes it's better to walk away from a bad deal than let yourself get ripped off for the sake of "getting your name out there". in the long run you'll find that people will always be willing to pay a decent price for quality work as much as they'd rather pay way under the odds. weird i know, but there seems to be more of a prestige for clients to brag they paid so and so amount for something even when someone else would do it cheaper.
human nature i guess...

aw man, i just read this back..i think i made my point, but once again, seriously..apologies for the drunken ramblings guys!! hahaha
here's hoping no-one will hold this against me if anyone even reads this!!

*EDIT*
ok, really hope i don't get written off as a drunken fool on my first post, but looked at this interms of madeinlongislands post and the thing i forgot to mention (and this could probably count as common sense really) is the whole asking the client how much someone else is charging them.
if you as a client this question they will lie to you every time! guaranteed! where i'm saying add $100 to what you want for the job, if you ask a client that they'll take $100 off the other guy's price right off the bat, and if that ends up being the amount you actually want for doing the job leaves you with only one way to go to try and get the work...down!
right, i'm gonna go find someone else to bore! haha
nice to be here by the way ;P