An email from Grind King...why are skateboarders hurting America

[skategeezer]

[rawls]

the commoditizing of the mainstream skateboard is the cause. this is what has driven the market into a cost versus performance situation. why?

I think questions like this might be better directed at an organization like the IASC. Let them try to figure out cookie utters and brands and softgoods and endorsements have really done nothing but build up a false sense of where the market really stands.

they will place the blame on the consumer, but actually the consumer is reactionary. What are they reacting to? you got it, the market!

Once again, the companies and marketplace that have bought into this total mass production and marketing of a standardized skateboard have hurt things terrifically. they have taken the
"skate" out of "skateboarding" and placed it into an unspecialized market place, making it accessible by the masses; turning it into "mallboarding".

Fix the market, end mallboarding, bring back the specialty market and everything will be fine. Oh, by the way, if you relied on the mass market to bring a good profit base and it is beginning to sour, then you might need to do some reading on how to function in the open market. To keep up, lower and lower cost manufacturing is required.

The basic options are to:
1) fix the skateboard industry at the top levels (heavily influenced by the media and advertising dollars to maintain the status quo), take it out of the mainstream, recieve a little tuff-love on profits. note: the real skate companies are likely the ones realizing the least of the profits!

OR

2)find cheaper methods to manufacture your components and keep the train going yet a little longer.

neither of which are truly consumer based issues.

[Alpha06]

Greed is hurting america, not skateboarders. Greed is causing this oil price bullshit, greed caused the subprime mortgage scam, and greed will cost this country much more than these two things down the road. If you look at why people are going cheap, look at the rising food prices, the rising oil prices, inflation, and it all narrows down to greed. Mind you, GM killed the trolly, the electric car, and other things back in the day. Yes, an American company did that. Next time the lady decides to blame the American consumer, she should figure out what is going on in America to cause such a trend.

[enemy combatant]

Town Cars are nice rides especially if the whole crew chips in for gas. Hard to justify for solo trips nowadays.

[mc99david]

personaly i dont care where its made as long as it performs the best. i ride indi cause they are the best, and thats it. and any real skater will say he same... those kids wanting the cheep trucks want the cause they dont know the difference... that is the main trouble with skateboarding being fassionable, who cares what trucks you have if you only have one to look cool... death of street will come and those left will know what truck they want be cause of quality and those are the companys that will survive, just as indi has done for all these years

[circle]

YouTube - TEAM AMERICA- AMERICA **** YEAH!!!

[enemy combatant]

Grind King, thanks for the tip but does that mean we're not allowed to put your trucks on a Rayne Agent?

[rawls]

I got to thinking, there's a lot of "why" things are like they are in my response, as well as the others. But I guess there comes a time when a viable and plausible solution is most helpful. So I will sit on it for a little bit to prepare a decent write-up. Maybe others can do the same. I dont have a beans bit of interest in Grind King, however their dillemma is being faces by a whole bunch of smaller companies, in a very silimar scenario. the same thing hits tracker, and my truck company "Gullwing" is all but gone. Believe it or not, I was offered the old casting (pros and SL series) by Walt, and just could not get the where with all to make it happen. But none the less, GK is making do with what it takes to put out their product, and market has made it so the customer appeal is lost.

The thing about her dillemma that grips me as well as other cries like this, is that it is somehow the consumers' fault. WRONG! If you play in the market, then you play by the market rules.

Maybe Michael can forward them onward, if she is not already reading the responses.

[Wells]

Are we actually going to have this ####### discussion again?

[Mile_High_Mark]

GK offers tons of graphics on their trucks. I'd venture to guess that cutting down on the number of variations would cut cost, and improve availability.

[Wells]

GK offers tons of graphics on their trucks. I'd venture to guess that cutting down on the number of variations would cut cost, and improve availability.

Skateboarding just isn't worth it If I can't floss Burberry plaid trucks.

[Poseur Pete]

I can't really say that her rant on the process involved in making their trucks has made me sympathetic to her cause, and I found the impromptu lesson in economics to be equally off-putting. I dare say that reading this email might make someone less likely to purchase Grind King products in the future. For me, quality is typically a higher priority than price when looking to purchase a product, but whether or not the people involved in making that product can afford to buy groceries or a new computer usually isn't even on the list.

It sounds to me like adding a line of cheaper trucks would be a more productive idea then constructing an angry chain letter. I don't know if that's the answer, but if what they're doing isn't working, then maybe they need to do something else besides complaining. Change with the tides or get swept away so to speak. Also, Ms. Marden could use a lesson in perspective. There may be a lot of things out there hurting America, but skateboarders aren't among them.

Mind you, GM killed the trolly, the electric car, and other things back in the day.

Let us also keep in mind that video killed the radio star.

[mc99david]

if they cant cut their cost enough to be competative, then be inovative so people need to buy what you are selling reguardless of the price.

wefunk seemed to do pretty good with their prices... and yet you could buy a blank for about 1000% less, if i'm doing my math right..

now how is that possable???

i love the free market

[WyleKeaton]

For those that have the current issue of CW - I refer you to "The Fine Print"...
It has some good points that directly reflect this very issue. In particular, the part that says "It's obvious that the traditional ways of doing things are colliding with new methods and technologies." Our methodologies in America need to change and we need to not look at products coming from other parts of the world and the people buying them as "bad" - but a challenge to ourselves to get out of the industrial age and into the new millenium.

I'm the first to step up and say - "Buy American" - or even Canadian for that matter; but it better not be a piece of crap product or I will look at alternatives.

[Mile_High_Mark]

Skateboarding just isn't worth it If I can't floss Burberry plaid trucks.

Well there's that, too.

[skategeezer]

it's a difficult issue...again, those who live in glass houses...

a lot of #### that I own comes from China. That's the reality.

clothing, shoes, computers...ipods...

it's all made overseas.

i read an extraordinary book a few months ago called THE WORLD IS FLAT.

Bottom line, North America has moved (and continues to move) from manufacturing (ie: brawn) based economy to a marketing (brains) based economy. This is not new to anyone reading these forums. The truth is that there will always be people who want cheap and there will always be people who want expensive.

My gut tells me that Grind King might be in the mushy middle...not cheap but not expensive.

[longboardorific]

i dont think it should only be in america though.
im not gonna buy a pt loser from america instead of a ferrari from italy. i dont like italy, but they make a better car.
i choose to go with mc99david, if other trucks performed better i would go with those, but inds are the best.
now i was happy when k2 bought line and moved their factories form colarado to china. why? durability and a better product. if they could have gotten the same or better qc in colarado i would have been pissed, but i want my money to go to the best equipment it can

[rawls]

Ok, so I went to the site. Never been there, but it was pretty cool. Here's what I saw in the write-up about the owner. "Donald Cassel .... One thing has always been clear, Donald doesn't follow rules or play status quo with the industry. He has been committed to continuously being innovative, going as far as hand sculpting each new truck design with the input of the pro skaters he sponsors. "

A sweet write-up about not following rules and status quo makes you think "performance and quality at all cost", and they are not going to follow the mainstream rules.

I think they are bending to the market too much. Heck they are running more than 70 different models of trucks, out of probably 5 different geometry designs and some different link hangers. If this isn't mass marketing I dont know what is.

Sounds to me they need regroup, drop all the pretty paint, get back to the basics and offer skateboard trucks. performance proven, brand longevity, quality in design and mfg, american made.... good old fashioned trucks like they ought to be. No paint, no fluff, just pure and simple function-function-function.

If they are blaming their dillemma on the skaters, then they need to listen. If its purely about cost, then bang the cost versus drum as loudly as you can. Drop the fluff, keep the design.

then branch out in the market. Use the name to establish history, then go after the bowl riders, go after some longboards etc etc. change the whole slogan and product offering. Hit the mainstream mags with performance and function. Let the pros tell tell why. Dont say, Joe-Pro rides them. Let Joe Pro tell why he rides them.

Kill the mainstream at their own game, by rewriting the rules. Put the activity of skateboarding back into the picture. Become the leader, not the follower. Dont set you sites on the mainstream. Set your sites on Tracker, on Indy, etc etc. Establish a diehard following becuase you know what its all about, not because you sell trucks like everybody else.

Just a start.

[Cranks]

the problem isn't skaters ruining america, its cheap assholes ruining everything.


another problem is asshats with an inflated sense of entitlement. you make your trucks in the US, so people should pay more and not buy cheap, but possibly BETTER trucks from china? i mean come on, who is suprised. i'm not buying more grind kings, the set i have is not very good. wefunk is a good example. hand made, not in china, people are more than willing to pay through the teeth for them. if wefunk was making 7 ply birch pintails with no graphics, and charging the same price, would people buy them just because they were made by skaters? #### that ####.


um im starting to ramble, so my message for grindking would be, make something worth the price you want to charge. GK's aren't really the wefunk of trucks.

edit: while i was typing this, rawls nailed it. i would also like to add a debate that rages in the MTB community. Hand made limited run american built bikes, or mass produced robot welded bikes from china. i would way rather buy a frame that was made in a facility that produces 10,000 frames a year, with the equipment to x-ray welds and a quality control department that actually works.

[Wells]

China already can make trucks just as good as America. My chinese-made Ace trucks are actually better made than my US-made Independents.

This isn't some skate-specific issue. Trucks are fairly simple manufactured goods. China can produce for less because they don't have to deal with pesky things like human rights, environmental regulations, laws against child labor, labor unions, on-the-job safety, employer-paid healthcare costs for workers, or corporate transparency. This is why it's attractive for businesses.

Unless and until that changes, all this BS about how America just needs to work harder or smarter or whatever Tom Freidman is spitting out this week is bunk.