I don't care what you think hip hop is

[NorCal DH]

N.W.A.

eminem (relapse album)

Ice cube

snoop dogg

dr. dre

[Loadedd]

1.what he was trying to say is that the mainstream, capital record wanna be's are not rapping. the ones who are nearly on their hands and knees begging for attention and money, talking about things they dont know, and "rapping" about why they are better than you. these are the people who dont rap, these are the people who are controlled by agents and money and fans that they dont care about. they do what the average american wants them to, and the average american is stupid as hell.

2.immortals music is practically his diary, he actually sings about what he feels. people like immortal because he has been there, his songs are true. although i dont agree with that quote, i think its vague and not thought out. in some cases it's 100% true. but in others, its false, didnt the beatles make quite a few platinum records?

3.hip hop was not being defined in the 90's. hip hops reputation of being "gangster" was defined in the 90's. in jamaica and africa in the 60's and maybe even the 50's hip hop was being invented. as it became bigger in jamaica it began to spread to other countries, and finally in the 80's it hit america, hard. this is when american rap was invented, it was underground and began to creep upwards and into the 90's, when gang members and thugs were rapping, and people like tupac and biggie gave it the reputation it has today in america.

1. My mistake... I misinterpreted what he said.

2. Yes it may be "true" thoughts, and I admire the fact that he portrays his talent into things he firmly believes, but he presents ridiculous conspiracies that nearly cross the line into bigotry. He's definitely passionate, but you cannot like his music for the subject matter, but rather for the passion he has for what he (and only himself because he is anti-conservative to say the least) believes. Plus his production sucks.

3. The lifestyle or even culture (per se) was being developed in those early stages, but "Hip-Hop" as we know it saw it's definition beginning in the late '70's and early '80's in NYC... From there we see the movement towards MCing (one of the four elements of hip-hop; the other being graffiti, breakdancing, and DJing). This movement began a way for emcees to convey social issues in a positive manner. The more and more hip-hop began to become popular in the United States, there was a change in the subject manner of MCing (in the late '80's and early '90's). For the broader demographic "gangster" rap emerged. Was this essentially a good change in subject and tone? No it wasn't, but for hip-hop it lead to it's popularity today. It lost a lot of the social meaning, but it defined hip-hop in the United States. That definition may not be one that is thought highly of now, but if you like to think of yourself as hip-hop "aficionado" then these thugs show a lot about hip-hop's evolution. The '90's definitely contributed to the definition of hip-hop as it grew rapidly. Not to mention, the amazing production and innovative lyrics seen in many of these albums. Am I saying that the '90's took precedent in what hip-hop is today? No way, but the early '90's definitely shouldn't be overlooked.

Anyways... while the '80's are hip-hop's golden age don't count out the '90's (specifically the early) in it's definition.

[Loadedd]

Say what you will about Lil' Wayne's outsize ego, but he's got nasty rhyming skills and a totally unique free-associative wordplay style of rapping. I wish I could do what he does with words.

I give Lil' Wayne props... he knows how to be attractive to a MASSIVE demographic, and he's had the staying power.

While I won't say he has superb rhyming skills, he does know how to make catch phrases that as retarded as they really are, they sound pretty cool. The one thing I will easily say he's good at is lyrical innovation in the sense that he can make what any other emcee would get crucified for rapping into something that teenagers around the world are blasting in their ipods.

[RothToAnExtent]

Here's how I see stuff.

Flow:

For The Listener's Ears

Lyricism:

Pigeon

[Thrash]

Then you're missing out on a lot of amazing artists from the early 90's when Hip-Hop was being defined...

Then you go on to quote Immortal Technique... when all he does is spout hypocritical and nearly racist conspiracy theories? There are many past and present artists that are much much better than Immortal Technique.

i think you're overlooking the fact that we agree.

the unnamed artists i was accusing of suckage are the types that spray about drugs and money and no story, rappers that brag about senseless violence and abuse of women. the worst of the worst are the ones that rattle off for four minutes about being "hot cause they fly" and showing no other evidence.

and skepticism aside, check immortal technique's facts. on any contestable nature he hits the subject nail on the head and the headline effigy in the groin. and before you say all he does is spout theory listen a little more. "dance with the devil" "got no strings" "you never know" "peruvian cocaine" and more are all locomotive vignettes from a single perspective. i will agree that he's not necessarily the best, but his quote does perfectly well to wave off some of the stupidly fortunate talentless hacks making millions at the moment.

[rosewood thief]

1. My mistake... I misinterpreted what he said.

2. Yes it may be "true" thoughts, and I admire the fact that he portrays his talent into things he firmly believes, but he presents ridiculous conspiracies that nearly cross the line into bigotry. He's definitely passionate, but you cannot like his music for the subject matter, but rather for the passion he has for what he (and only himself because he is anti-conservative to say the least) believes. Plus his production sucks.

3. The lifestyle or even culture (per se) was being developed in those early stages, but "Hip-Hop" as we know it saw it's definition beginning in the late '70's and early '80's in NYC... From there we see the movement towards MCing (one of the four elements of hip-hop; the other being graffiti, breakdancing, and DJing). This movement began a way for emcees to convey social issues in a positive manner. The more and more hip-hop began to become popular in the United States, there was a change in the subject manner of MCing (in the late '80's and early '90's). For the broader demographic "gangster" rap emerged. Was this essentially a good change in subject and tone? No it wasn't, but for hip-hop it lead to it's popularity today. It lost a lot of the social meaning, but it defined hip-hop in the United States. That definition may not be one that is thought highly of now, but if you like to think of yourself as hip-hop "aficionado" then these thugs show a lot about hip-hop's evolution. The '90's definitely contributed to the definition of hip-hop as it grew rapidly. Not to mention, the amazing production and innovative lyrics seen in many of these albums. Am I saying that the '90's took precedent in what hip-hop is today? No way, but the early '90's definitely shouldn't be overlooked.

Anyways... while the '80's are hip-hop's golden age don't count out the '90's (specifically the early) in it's definition.

this is a great thread
(no sarcasm, this thread is great)

i cant argue that at all....

im with thrash, listen to dance with the devil a couple times, listen to the lyrics closely and follow the story. its pretty straight forward, but i didnt completely understand it until after the first couple times i heard it. another great one is harlem streets, it may be one of those "ridiculous conspiracy" songs you mentioned, but it makes tons of sense IMO

[Thrash]

what he was trying to say is that the mainstream, capital record wanna be's are not rapping. the ones who are nearly on their hands and knees begging for attention and money, talking about things they dont know, and "rapping" about why they are better than you. these are the people who dont rap, these are the people who are controlled by agents and money and fans that they dont care about. they do what the average american wants them to, and the average american is stupid as hell.

immortals music is practically his diary, he actually sings about what he feels. people like immortal because he has been there, his songs are true. although i dont agree with that quote, i think its vague and not thought out. in some cases it's 100% true. but in others, its false, didnt the beatles make quite a few platinum records?

hip hop was not being defined in the 90's. hip hops reputation of being "gangster" was defined in the 90's. in jamaica and africa in the 60's and maybe even the 50's hip hop was being invented. as it became bigger in jamaica it began to spread to other countries, and finally in the 80's it hit america, hard. this is when american rap was invented, it was underground and began to creep upwards and into the 90's, when gang members and thugs were rapping, and people like tupac and biggie gave it the reputation it has today in america.

pretty much it. as far as the beatles are concerned, though, stupid people can listen to great music too. tasteless stupidity explains why miley, jonas, even ashley simpson were once chart toppers, but great artists like tool, michael jackson, black sabbath, motley crue, elvis, the beatles, and ray charles spent some time collecting fame too.

i disagree on the tupac and biggie statement. sure, they were figureheads, but the music is defined by the mindless fanboys and girls spouting noise without knowing what it means. lots of americans pay less attention to the art itself and more to the glitz and cashflow associated with it. without the listening individual's active interpretation of coupled lyrics and sound, everyone's reduced to a hopping, screaming, dreaming brat miscreant. picture thugs in blue bandanas bouncing next to teeny girls in pink and bows dancing around cocktail tables of opinionless elitist white collar sellouts, being served their drinks by the previous generation of true talent who once played their nondenominational quality in venues oblivious to demographics and you'll have the right idea.

[Thrash]

and loadedd, come on, where do you get your facts? though graffiti and hip-hop are now somewhat maybe a little bit connected, somewhere, they have explicitly different origins. they're not even close to parts of a whole.

hip-hop: minimalist rythmic music with a typical a:b: rhyme scheme, cultural relevant to middle and lower classes

graffiti: art movement based on controlled vandalism, originated from and expedited by the invention of spray paint.

use that thing your helmet's there to protect.

EDIT: and breakdancing originated with brazilian slaves. capoeira much?

[rosewood thief]

actually, isnt hip hop the culture? while rap is the music? thats what my music teacher said, and for the most part that guy knows his ####...

graffiti was controlled by the underground rappers of the 70's and 80's in new york. they were also some of the original turntable/DJ style rappers. who made their equipment out of two by fours, conduit, wires, and whatever else they had lying around they could turn into a turntable. so graffiti/DJing were sort of the same thing.

[brittin]

Doom! Listen To Gazillion Ear...thats True Hip Hop. Not No Punks That Think They Are Cool Rapping About How Much Money And Hoes They Got.

[RothToAnExtent]

Your daily dose of that hop blasting out your ear cups in order to make your head bop.

Crooklyn Dodgers - Golden Age Classic

Let's throw some Sugerhill in there just to fit with the little roots of hip hop discussion going on here.

Sugerhill Gang - 8th Wonder

[Loadedd]

this is a great thread
(no sarcasm, this thread is great)

i cant argue that at all....

im with thrash, listen to dance with the devil a couple times, listen to the lyrics closely and follow the story. its pretty straight forward, but i didnt completely understand it until after the first couple times i heard it. another great one is harlem streets, it may be one of those "ridiculous conspiracy" songs you mentioned, but it makes tons of sense IMO

It's always good to discuss the enigma known as hip-hop...

I've listened to it a few times, and it is one of his songs I enjoy. When I see interviews of him or when I listen to songs like "Bin Laden", it just kills it for me. I have no right to decide what people enjoy to listen to, but he just doesn't do it for me.

[Loadedd]

1. It Takes a Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back
2. Long Live the Kane
3. By All Means Necessary
4. Follow the Leader
5. Long Live the Kane
6. The Great Adventures of Slick Rick
7. Straight Outta Compton
8. Strictly Business
9. Power
10. The World's Greatest Entertainer
11. Straight Out the Jungle
12. In Full Gear
13. Lyte As a Rock
14. Tougher Than Leather
15. Critical Beatdown
16. Born to Mack
17. He's the DJ, I'm the Rapper
18. Act a Fool
19. Eazy-Duz-It
19. Goin' Off
20. Life is... Too $hort


I would argue 1988 to be hip-hop's greatest year... The above is my list of the best albums to be released that year.

[rosewood thief]

it takes a nation of millions to hold us back is great, anyone else have the rolling stone book, top 500 greatest albums of all time? that album is something like 57 i think, i know its in there...

[Loadedd]

it takes a nation of millions to hold us back is great, anyone else have the rolling stone book, top 500 greatest albums of all time? that album is something like 57 i think, i know its in there...

#49.


10publicenemys

[rosewood thief]

atta boy! knew i was close

[RothToAnExtent]

1. It Takes a Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back
2. Long Live the Kane
3. By All Means Necessary
4. Follow the Leader
5. Long Live the Kane
6. The Great Adventures of Slick Rick
7. Straight Outta Compton
8. Strictly Business
9. Power
10. The World's Greatest Entertainer
11. Straight Out the Jungle
12. In Full Gear
13. Lyte As a Rock
14. Tougher Than Leather
15. Critical Beatdown
16. Born to Mack
17. He's the DJ, I'm the Rapper
18. Act a Fool
19. Eazy-Duz-It
19. Goin' Off
20. Life is... Too


I would argue 1988 to be hip-hop's greatest year... The above is my list of the best albums to be released that year.

You listed Long Live The Kane twice. Maybe cause it's that good. Haha

[Cameronisswell]

MC Chris is a baller, even if he does sound like a baby

YouTube - mc chris - Evergreen

[Loadedd]

You listed Long Live The Kane twice. Maybe cause it's that good. Haha

My bad... haha, you're right. It's that good.

[Thrash]

graffiti was controlled by the underground rappers of the 70's and 80's in new york. they were also some of the original turntable/DJ style rappers. who made their equipment out of two by fours, conduit, wires, and whatever else they had lying around they could turn into a turntable. so graffiti/DJing were sort of the same thing.

Noooooooooooooo. graffiti and dj-ing are not at all the same thing whatsoever. what you're calling control was just gangs marking their territory. any painter found marking in someone else's territory was shot, so "control was absolute". this was less graffiti art and more convenient spray of an otherwise worthless name. this is mostly what they do here in atlanta too, as i've walked in on too many wannabe bloods leaving their mark in bathroom stalls. classy. if any of the art happened to be good it was coincidence.

also- this was a semi-controlled incident in a single zone. look at the rest of the u.s. and the rest of the world. rap has had little influence on the graffiti motion until recently.