Worlds Amatuer and Master Class

[Eddy Martinez]

Concerning The Worlds a proposal has been made to make it exclusive to the fastest skaters in the World only. This would exclude the Ams. So should the USA host the World Championships for the Top Ams and Masters division. Remember without Amatuers there would be no Pros. Discuss amounst yourselfs. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws. In my opinion: Let the pros battle it out amounst themselves as it should be, the best top 20 Americans should represent our country. Let us Ams battle it out here in the states. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws

[snozzboarder55]

thats a tough call, combining the two groups at one time allows amateurs to see the pros and get experience from socializing and watching them. BUT it is not the pros job to train the ams, they are competing for competition sake so separating the two is also a good idea.

im new to slalom and competition is general, so ill agree with your thoughts on this eddy. you know much more about the logistics than me

[Topsider]

thats a tough call, combining the two groups at one time allows amateurs to see the pros and get experience from socializing and watching them. BUT it is not the pros job to train the ams, they are competing for competition sake so separating the two is also a good idea.

im new to slalom and competition is general, so ill agree with your thoughts on this eddy. you know much more about the logistics than me

I don't give a #### really. If the Pros want to separate the World's by class fine (Pros only). There is still room for the Ams, Masters, Juniors, whatever elsewhere. There are not enough Pros to really draw the crowds anyway IMO, let them spend the coin if that's what they want to do. It is understandable to me.

So there will be a retired Pros class too then right? Currently the only Masters concern is age not previous experience, etc. This could simply be a class on it's own. Truth is I liked skating in the Masters with stepped-down pros because they are friends. I have already resigned to the truth I will never win, don't need to.

[Eddy Martinez]

Well the Pros would still be at the regular Slalom Tour races. But this only would apply to The Worlds. I would love the host the Worlds Amatuers in 2010, Masters, A,B,C,Womens,Juniors, I feel if the top 20 USA pros want to go race exclusively. Go for it. Slalom to me is lke a wild vine growing underneath a bridge. Should not be there, does'nt get much water, survives the cold, the hot blistering summer. But there it is. It would be exciting to watch if anything else. Plus I do not mind contributing to a fund to get one of our top American Down Hill Slalom Racers to the race. I gave it some thought last nite. Since my parents are from Latin America. I could apply for Mexican citizen ship and go and represent Mexico at the Worlds. Arrrrriiiiibbbbaaa. Plus could make some extra cash doing some yard work while I am up there. Thanks for coming out to the Texas Cold Fusion Sizzler every year TopSider. Luv ya Bro. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.

[donald20]

eddy
that's totally interfering with what we are planning here
i want to see fast us ams at the worlds
i never wanted to make this a pro exclusive.
pros and ams will have to qualify,that's where we don't have a pro exclusive at brixlegg.
i am also willing to pay for at least 2 ams to come over to brixlegg.
this is absolutely destroying the whole structure we are trying to set up now for next year.
please discard that idea again.
if we want to succeed we have to work together and not as single individuals.

[Old Guy]

eddy
.
this is absolutely destroying the whole structure we are trying to set up now for next year.
.

How does a free exchange of ideas cause destruction?

[Joe & Nick]

I'm afraid I see the concept of classes in slalom racing as entirely flawed right now. I can show up to any race right now and skate pro/am/masters as I turned 45 this year. The current World Am Champion declared himself "pro" almost a year ago, in public after winning the AM class of the Dixie Cup, then this summer he decided to skate AM since it improved his chances, but he had already declared pro!?! I skate in the AM group with guys who were skating pro 2-3 years ago.

In Antrim last week, Seb Leger, a Canadian AM, beat Pros Louis Ricard, Richy Carrasco and World Champ George Pappas to podium in TS.

Someone has to step and do something that makes sense, because being able to declare pro, then ride am, racing masters one week and pro two weeks later and then switching back again, does not make sense in my mind.

I don't think Donald's plan is perfect, but to be fair, it is not a fully formed plan yet. What I do like is that he is looking for a way to showcase the fastest riders, regardless of if they are pro/am/junior/or masters. Dave Pirnack skated masters this year, could he qualify? How old is Joe Mclaren? Maybe the former World Snowboard champ that cleaned up the US Nationals in the AM category this year will get earn an invite.

What I believe we are all in violent agreement on, is the Worlds should showcase the gnarliest hills and courses, ridden by the fastest racers. What the Worlds should not be is democratic, inclusive, and someones first race.

To your point Eddy, having enough races for us "has beens" and "never weres" is important too. We buy the gear and keep the scene going. There will still be a sizzler, Farm, and Antrim. Lets give Donald time to present a complete idea, and then we can fill the gaps as we see them.

In a wholly related and unrelated note, long before Donald announced this idea, Tway and I announced The 10th and final Farm will be the "World Outlaw Championship", and while the same fast racing and fun will apply, expect it in legendary proportions.

[Eddy Martinez]

Understood Donny. Just throwing something out there for the has beens" and "never weres. I agree with Joe the system is flawed. Just throwing some ideas around. I thought you only wanted the Pros to compete at the Worlds. My mistake, simple misunderstanding. But some of us old geezers do not want to go hang out the Worlds and watch. Would I get knocked out in the first round. Probably so. But I was there. I want something for us older guys and Ams who are not at the level of the pros. Something for us to look forward to. And I don' mean a rocking chair. Our sport is so small, we all know each other. So the Worlds woulld include the Pros,Ams,Masters,Juniors,Womens. I am willing to help with a fund to help get an American Pro to the Worlds. That is for sure. They deserve it. They practice work hard. Still I want everyone in our slalom family to throw out your ideas. How can the system be improved. Let's hear it. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outllaws.

[tedzepplin]

I'm afraid I see the concept of classes in slalom racing as entirely flawed right now. I can show up to any race right now and skate pro/am/masters as I turned 45 this year.

Someone has to step and do something that makes sense, because being able to declare pro, then ride am, racing masters one week and pro two weeks later and then switching back again, does not make sense in my mind.

I agree.

I'm new to racing this summer - except for a few races in 1978. I've been trying to figure out the different divisions. It appears that people enter whatever division they want.

I think the fast skaters should race other fast skaters. Slow skaters should racer other slow skaters. Having qualifying runs and then dividing up the classes seemed to work last week in Antrim.

[donald20]

you are all right
the system is flawed and in my own personal view very destructive to the sport itself
brixlegg won't have pros or ams but it will have qualifying runs.
i am sticking my head far out of the window with the whole format i want to do next year which completely doesn't rely on any issa rules,sanctioning,or anything else you could possibly imagine.
the sport got stale and we need something new
so now's the time
with good and able folks such as eddy,joe,jack we might be able to turn things into a positive direction.
we just have to have a common understanding,which is important.
no advantages for anyone only for the sport!

[snozzboarder55]

qualifying runs make the most sense. have a set time and if people beat that time then they qualify (kinda like the movie Cool Running). or have the top X number of times be the pros. that way there is less of a chance of "sand baggers" registering as Ams because they would rather place well as an amateur rather than really compete as a pro.

what is the system like currently? people register in a division and compete at that level? i read through these posts and age is some how involved also? seems more complicated than what is necessary to get good, well organized divisions with even competition.

[stridey]

I see all side of this argument.

As an 'Am' who won an Am World Title in Tight Slalom I took the decision to race 'Pro' afterwards. Sure, GS wasnt my top event, but still I rode Pro in all the events. And this was kind of vindicated when I qualified 2nd in Tight the year after.... I feel the issue of Ams that should be Pros is a serious one. If you win an AM world it should be your ticket to Pro class. If you win 3 or a number of Am (Main or Prime?)races the same should be true perhaps. Then the only sandbagging will be done by people who love coming second....

So, at the Worlds I would like to go, but one reason is to meet up with my friends. A lot of my friends wont be 'Pro' so wont be there...this is the conundrum.

However, there are plenty of other races in the year where we can catch up. And that was one reason why this years Worlds held little appeal for me... a long way to go, and very few Euros willing to make the trip precisely because the Euro races have such appeal.

So Donald HAS to try something new, otherwise it will be like the Worlds this year, only in reverse. I think an aim to be able to pay airfares and stuff for a number of US riders is the way to go. So, if you cant make it, at least you can cheer a worthwhile team or group of your comrades. Knowing that this years Worlds DID NOT have some of the very best riders, only a selection of them was a bit of a downer.

I do however think that if some way can be made to encourage as many riders as possible to come to the Worlds In Brixlegg is needed. I really do think the comment saying 'I was there' was so relavent to what we do.

Its a difficult one, but I feel Donald has the desire to achieve something here. Perhaps truly having the Worlds as a different event is the way to go....otherwise its just another event in a town with a slope....