I'm pretty new to slalom (TS) and I'm currently having some rear traction problems. I'm wondering if there is something that I'm not thinking of to fix it.
Setup:
Subsonic Lowland 30 (18.5" inner to inner/22" axle to axle)
Tracker RT-X wedged 20* (white Khiro/lathed hourglass yellow Stim)
Tracker RT-S dewedged 6* (yellow khiro/blue Stim)
Lemon/Lime 70mm ZigZags
The Trackers are milled down to 95mm which is where I'm running both, but they can be spaced out a little past 110mm. The axles are new and straight.
What can I do to gain some rear traction besides fresh wheels and an offset? I've read that spacing out the rear might help, but it seems counter intuitive to me (narrower = more turn/less slide).
Also for those using a RTs/x combo for TS whats your wedging/dewedging?
What is your ride height like? Is your front higher or is the back? If you set the front higher it can improve traction. Also if you set your feet more forward facing and drop your butt a few inches you can get alot more traction.
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Originally Posted by da-an-aniel.cal-al-an
I have killed for a cookie. be careful of what you say, every day i have to live with the guilt
I don't know much about slalom, but I do know from experience that the looser/turnier trucks are, the more prone they are to break traction.
Spacing the axle out would slow down the turning a bit, and increase traction (a bit).
What is your ride height like?drop your butt a few inches you can get a lot more traction.
The front is higher, but only a couple of mm... I will try adjusting my stance, but I find it had to "sit lower" and still have a strong pump.
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Originally Posted by [ben]
I don't know much about slalom, but I do know from experience that the looser/turnier trucks are, the more prone they are to break traction.
Spacing the axle out would slow down the turning a bit, and increase traction (a bit).
You could also try gaining a lot of weight.
My back is pretty dead, but I'll give the double yellows a try.
I'm 5'8" 170lbs I don't think its a weight issue.
I use the feel method. I try to push down the rear truck towards the board. If it moves more than an 1/8th of an inch its too loose in the rear. In a TS set up, the rear merely tracks not turns. The front is doing all the turning. (I weigh 200lbs)
My question would be what do you have under the stim? The stim should be cupped. But I dont think you have a long enough king pin, so I am thinking you are running it flat against the plate. In my honest opinion, lose the stim and put a blue barrel khiro on top and put the yellow on the bottom (its all depending on your weight) The stims are too bouncy for me for slalom. Cup both barrel's.
Now keep in mind all set up's are relative to the hill and what you are comfortable with. My set up is based upon several COSS slalom racers....a steep hill that tightens up your sphincter, and offsets that will make your pee pee hurt.
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My question would be what do you have under the stim? The stim should be cupped. But I dont think you have a long enough king pin, so I am thinking you are running it flat against the plate. In my honest opinion, lose the stim and put a blue barrel khiro on top and put the yellow on the bottom (its all depending on your weight) The stims are too bouncy for me for slalom. Cup both barrel's.
I switched out the kingpins when I first got the trucks (PITA ) so I have room to spare. Right now I have:
baseplate---flat washer---blue Stim---hanger---yellow Khiro barrel---flat washer---nut---1/4" of threads left
Edit: I just switched out my flat washers for cupped Bennett washers and it stiffened things up quite a bit, I just hope to god the bottom cupped washer won't bite into the Stim.
I've read that spacing out the rear might help, but it seems counter intuitive to me (narrower = more turn/less slide).
My son is very quick for his age (13) and like a lot of the faster tight slalomers I skate with, for him it's more about controlling the slide when it happens than eliminating it. He had a couple of bad falls recently and was adamant that the outer edge of his outer wheel was catching during a slide. I packed his rear splitfire out with spacers (taking it from 90 to maybe 110 mm) and it does seem to have eliminated the problem without effecting his ability to get through the 1.6 metre (5'3") straight we've been practicing recently for the upcoming record attempts. It also must be true that a wider track helps keep the weight spread between the wheels which must in turn help grip, though, like a lot of things with slalom, I find it impossible to judge the significance of this difference.
Quote:
Also for those using a RTs/x combo for TS whats your wedging/dewedging?
This is my take on things and should not be taken as absolute fact:
More dewedging may well increase grip as, during a turn, your rear wheels will be at less of an angle to the direction of travel. More dewedging is a good thing for your pump too, it's like changing to a higher gear. I would suggest, if you can be bothered to keep adjusting, gradually dewedging to the point where it feels broken, you'll have to adjust your pump but you'll get faster. At the point where you can't get through the cones anymore, take off a few degrees of de-wedge and you'll have improved. You will probably end up with over 10 degrees of dewedge.
I did this myself recently (though for me it was a lot easier with an adjustable rear GOG) and got down to the equivilent of about -25 degrees and got MUCH faster but had to dial it back 3 to get through those 5'3" cones.
I switched out the kingpins when I first got the trucks (PITA ) so I have room to spare. Right now I have:
baseplate---flat washer---blue Stim---hanger---yellow Khiro barrel---flat washer---nut---1/4" of threads left
Edit: I just switched out my flat washers for cupped Bennett washers and it stiffened things up quite a bit, I just hope to god the bottom cupped washer won't bite into the Stim.
This thread has got me thinking about something very fundamental about bushings.
Imagine two trucks, truck A has 80a bushings, truck B has 90a. They are both tightened to the same tightness (obviously A's are far more cranked down) so that it takes the same amount of pressure to start a turn. As the trucks turn further,
1. which needs more pressure to get deeper into it's tun?
2. which needs more pressure to get toward the limit of it's turn?
3. which has the more limited turn?
I'm pretty sure the answer to 3 is truck B though i'm not sure about the other two (or even how important they are).
Check your stance. You may be leaning forward (and not realize it). I have never had a problem with traction for TS. But I have taken some spills because I put weight on the front while concentrating on other things like not hitting cones. Try that before you change your setup.
This has been brought to you by ramblings from a C class racer.
Check your stance. You may be leaning forward (and not realize it). I have never had a problem with traction for TS. But I have taken some spills because I put weight on the front while concentrating on other things like not hitting cones. Try that before you change your setup.
This has been brought to you by ramblings from a C class racer.
Good point, far too often the initiation of a turn is focused on, while the completion is ignored, due to initiating the next. Follow thru is paramount. Weight the rear for a nano second when you exit a turn.
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I think you are getting better every time we skate.
Watch this video of you and dave racing. (EFG is in the tan shirt and light blue jeans and Dave is in the white shirt and dark shorts) Compare the stances. You look more upright almost like you are turning from the waist. You knees aren't bending much. They stay the same most of the time. Try bending your knees more and get more of a sitting stance that is flexible and adjusts as you go around the cones - so you are turning with your legs more rather than from the waist. This will place more weight on the back end to increase grip. Dave is great at gaining speed from pumping. Watch what he does. See how low he gets and how much his knees bend? Then the next think to think about is getting your arms into a rhythm to help with the pumping. See ya next sunday!
PS. EFG is brand new to slalom skating and already goes really fast. when he gets his board dialed in and his style perfected -- watch out!!!!
Thanks for putting up those 2 sad runs Steve Lol, I'm not that terrible all the time I promise. (That course was particularly hard for me, I had a terrible time trying to keep my pump going with the odd spacing and offsets.)
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Originally Posted by Glennx
I packed his rear splitfire out with spacers (taking it from 90 to maybe 110 mm) and it does seem to have eliminated the problem without effecting his ability to get through the 1.6 metre (5'3") straight we've been practicing... It also must be true that a wider track helps keep the weight spread between the wheels which must in turn help grip, though, like a lot of things with slalom, I find it impossible to judge the significance of this difference.
I might still try spacing out the rear, although I was kind of thinking that a narrower truck would turn more as opposed to sliding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennx
More dewedging may well increase grip as, during a turn, your rear wheels will be at less of an angle to the direction of travel. More dewedging is a good thing for your pump too, it's like changing to a higher gear.
You will probably end up with over 10 degrees of dewedge.
Which is also the same line of reasoning that lead me bring the rear down from -10 to -6; more turning would equal less sliding. Although it sounds like I'm thinking of this in the wrong way...
I need to have the back truck move from side to side of the cones rather than turning around them?
BTW Glennx your son looks like hes doing great, let us know how those record attempts go!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogre
Good point, far too often the initiation of a turn is focused on, while the completion is ignored, due to initiating the next. Follow thru is paramount. Weight the rear for a nano second when you exit a turn.
I will defiantly continue to improve my stance and try to weight the back more as I leave turns. (Also most of my traction problems seem to be when making healside turns to get around offsets, not sure if that helps?)
TS traction
![[ben]'s Avatar](/forum/images/customavatars/avatar7125_11.gif){kind=avatar}
) so I have room to spare. Right now I have: 
Lol, I'm not that terrible all the time I promise. (That course was particularly hard for me, I had a terrible time trying to keep my pump going with the odd spacing and offsets.)