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  1. #21
    Addicted Cruiser bandaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Poirier View Post
    Okay, i'm not sure I understand correctly... you want a carbon fiber bottom and want the wheels wells to show your wood? You are cutting your wheel wells before moulding?


    But..., why can't you cut your wheel wells after moulding?

    Yup, you understood, I wanted the wells an even 3mm deep, not tapering as you get from a can wrapped in sand paper. So I ended up doing a combination of what I had in mind/your input, worked out well. I couldn't cut the wells after the mould because that would require a very accurate model, template and 5 axis cnc, or many man hours. Much easier to use a 3 axis cnc when the board was flat, and do a simple island fill.

    So end result: Routed out the wheel wells before layup, cut some white plastic 2mm wide, to fit snug along the curve I trimmed with the router, and laid masking tape on the cut surface. Mixed the resin, tacked the plastic in place, continued with layup as normal all in the one epoxy mix. Once out of the mould, I trimmed it as normal, leaving the little white ends of the plastic on the side. I then followed along those with a dremel, shoved a screwdriver between the carbon and the tape and popped the wells out. Cleaned the tape up, sealed the exposed timber, and done. Took maybe 30 mins to get the end result, faster than expected.

    I got some pictures on my phone showing the process some, do people want a how to write up or everyone do this already?

    Just hit with dremel, before finishing, note the white plastic showing up:

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    Finished after a few rides:

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    Thanks for the suggestions, thought I would share the results.


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  3. #22
    Concrete Kahuna TestMonkeyUnlimited's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I heart carbon fibre. Subbed.

  4. #23
    Stoked! catsarescary's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Glass Fiber vs Carbon
    Advantage/Disadvantage of each

  5. #24
    Concrete Kahuna Irwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Glass= cheaper
    Carbon = stronger
    (Weight and weave disregarded)

    That's my understanding, I would appreciate corrections from the master if I'm wrong
    The certain prospect of death could sweeten every life with a precious and fragrant drop of levity- and now you strange apothecary souls have turned it into an ill-tasting drop of poison that makes the whole of life repulsive.

  6. #25
    Concrete Kahuna TestMonkeyUnlimited's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    10ThoughtsOnKevlar?

  7. #26
    Addicted Cruiser easy_rider13's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irwin View Post
    Glass= cheaper
    Carbon = stronger
    (Weight and weave disregarded)

    That's my understanding, I would appreciate corrections from the master if I'm wrong
    That is correct. Also glass tends to be heavier because it soaks up more resin.

    As for kevlar...It is good with impacts so it might be best applied on the bottom or nose/tail of the board. It's a bitch to cut though.
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  8. #27
    Addicted Cruiser Dr Repper's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Glass tends to be more elastic, good if poppy flex is desired.
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  9. #28
    Stoked! Remmi's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Hello Yan Poirier I'm getting start to make a dancer, I've got an idea when comes to shape etc but I wonder which composites should I use to do a 50 inches dancer to 85 kg man ? What whould you recommend? I thought about 2 pieces od baltich birch and a piece of polar in the middle, what do you think about this? I would like to get middle flex for it, I mean flex like in normal dancer, not too much, for 85 kg man ) thanks for answer, best wishes Remii

  10. #29
    Addicted Cruiser Yan Poirier's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by catsarescary View Post
    Glass Fiber vs Carbon
    Advantage/Disadvantage of each
    Hi Catsarescary,

    Sure, fiberglass is a lot cheaper. Fiberglass is more impact and abrasion resistant than carbon. It has a better breaking strenght too, means that it will endure more elongation before breaking.

    Carbon fiber is lighter and near 2 times stiffer. Well, stats says it is 5 times stiffer than glass (to weight ratio) but it's not like that in real life to me, well not when combining it with wood for a sandwich construction.

    Stiffness/pop will last longer with carbon fiber (less fatigue). Fiberglass has a better adherance to wood, but it is not a concern if you use a good epoxy.

    There is more to say, but for building boards I think you have the essentials

  11. #30
    Addicted Cruiser Yan Poirier's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by TestMonkeyUnlimited View Post
    10ThoughtsOnKevlar?
    Kevlar is SUPER light. Very abrasion resistant. Poor compression strenght, very good tensile strenght. Ultimate and super long lasting POP. It's a good material to combine with glass or carbon: it will boost them a lot for minimal weight. Expensive. Pain in the a** to cut.

  12. #31
    Concrete Kahuna TIME2SMASH's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Kevlar is hard on tools/bits.

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  13. #32
    Addicted Cruiser cirrus's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I had a little trick for using kevlar when I built sportcars: Use it inside the laminate nowhere near the edges where you need to trim. Not only you only have to cut it once that way, withouth the trimming afterwards, but you seal the hygroscopic kevlar fibres inside the resin too, giving you a better laminate quality.
    Talking about hygroscopic properties: dry your aramid fibers before using it. Half an hour to an hour at 100 degrees will do. Aramids have poor adhesion to resins anyway, more water content will only make it worse.

  14. #33
    Concrete Kahuna ShredTheGnar101's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    This is some next level info here, thanks for doing this. Subbing so I can have this to look at for composite help
    $$$$$$$$$$

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  15. #34
    Addicted Cruiser bandaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I've found kevlar great, sure it can be a pain in the arse to cut, but if you do it right it has mad properties. It is best cut onto something, so a good pair of scissors, or layered onto a carbon/glass/timber layer, and trim it as close as possible, then hit it with a file, from the kevlar side, to get it more accurate.

    Going to have to disagree with you on the price though, kevlar is cheaper than carbon, little more expensive than glass. Also, it gives a great grip, better than glass/carbon.

  16. #35
    Addicted Cruiser Yan Poirier's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by Remmi View Post
    Hello Yan Poirier I'm getting start to make a dancer, I've got an idea when comes to shape etc but I wonder which composites should I use to do a 50 inches dancer to 85 kg man ? What whould you recommend? I thought about 2 pieces od baltich birch and a piece of polar in the middle, what do you think about this? I would like to get middle flex for it, I mean flex like in normal dancer, not too much, for 85 kg man ) thanks for answer, best wishes Remii
    It really depends on what composite you will use! Do you want to use only glass, or carbon or kevlar or both? Do you want a nice pop in it?

    The really best a everlasting pop that allow "infinite" pumping is combining all of them together.

    I like to use a 6 oz carbon/kevlar dual twill + 9oz bottom and a 9oz uni glass on top. (or between last layer of wood). Depending on where you would put your composites, you will need 4 plies of 3mm baltic birch (or the equivalent of that thickness using poplar for inner plies)

    Glass + Uni kevlar is cool too.

    Suggestions:

    top
    3mm birch
    uni glass 9oz
    6mm poplar
    carbon/kevlar dual twill 6oz
    3mm birch
    9oz uni glass
    bottom

    (if you want to see wood). I also have a small preference for the flex you get when putting composites between wood plies. It's hard to explain, it's kinda deeper/smoother flex, but with tons of energy.

    or

    uni glass 9oz
    3mm birch
    poplar 6mm
    3mm birch
    carbon/kevlar dual twill 6oz

    (taking off the 9oz glass bottom here)

    or

    12oz twill glass
    12mm poplar
    11oz twill carbon + 2.5oz uni kevlar or 6oz dual twill kevlar + 6 oz twill carbon


    Birch gives a good pop, much better than maple. I have some 1/16'' hard canadian birch, and it's an awsome material. Poplar seems good too. I like the idea of combining both.

    If you want a stronger (more impact resistant) construction I would go like this:

    1/16 maple
    12oz twill glass
    9mm poplar
    carbon/kevlar dual twill 6oz
    1/16 maple
    9oz uni glass


    *** you can replace 6oz carbon/kevlar dual twill with 12oz twill glass + 2.5oz uni kevlar

    It would also be a bit lighter because you would take the birch off. Birch is a bit lighter than maple, but i'm pretty sure than 3mm (2x 1/16'') maple + 9mm poplar is lighter than 6mm birch + 6mm poplar.

    see wood densities :Wood Densities

    You can also suggest me a construction and I will review it. I cannot be 100% accurate because it is hard to exactly know what kind of flex you want, but you'll be close to what you want.


    carbon/kevlar dual twill 6oz:

    ATTACH=CONFIG]138897[/ATTACH]
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Yan Poirier; 12-05-2013 at 07:41 PM.

  17. #36
    Fresh Fish Ron Burgundy's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I am making plans to build a 48 inch long dancer with a wheelbase of 42 inches and a concave of about 1/4th inch. I want to board pretty flexy so I'm planning on using 4 plys of 1/8th inch BB. I've been exploring the option of adding fiberglass to my board (I way 180 ish so a 48 inch long board with only 4 layers of 1/8th inch BB could have some strength issues). Do you think adding two layers of fiberglass to the top and two layers of fiberglass to the bottom of my board would be strong enough to hold me while maintaining flex?
    Scotch, Scotch, Scotch, I love Scotch! Here it goes, down into my belly. Mmm, mmm, mmm.

  18. #37
    Addicted Cruiser andruca's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    42" WB on a 48" deck means no kicks (nor turn). 4 ply as you suggest might be OK, but you'd have to think of a shorter wheelbase. Usually for decks this long it stands in the 30" to 35" range, allowing for kicks (my suggestion is no less than 6" from inner truck bolts to tip). With only 1/4" of concave and a WB as long as 42" you'd probably bottom out, even at your intended 1/2" BB thickness. I stopped messing with composites for dancers, I do 8 to 12mm BB as a core and then vacuum some maple veneers top & bottom. For any given flex it's clearly lighter than the composite counterparts I attempted.

  19. #38
    Fresh Fish Ron Burgundy's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Ok. What do you think about a 38 inch wheel base with 4 1/8 plys plus fiberglass. I'm not really too worried about having a a bad turning radius.
    Scotch, Scotch, Scotch, I love Scotch! Here it goes, down into my belly. Mmm, mmm, mmm.

  20. #39
    Addicted Cruiser BgSurfer's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I have a question Mr. Poirier.

    1. What glassing schedule would you use for a foam core, top and bottom? Composite skins laminated directly to foam with wood stringers and very little flex. Like this concept:

    http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/z...2/IMG_2287.jpg

    Name:  IMG_2287.jpg
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    2. Or a foam core with no stringers? Very little flex...
    Last edited by BgSurfer; 12-15-2013 at 11:58 AM.
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  21. #40
    Stoked! Hairyandlloyd32's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    What are you using for top coat?? I'm using a two part urethane for finish, looking for a good product that can be sprayed out of a gun for a finish

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