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  1. #61
    Stoked! jamesporterdesign's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    ok well thanks for all your help !!


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  3. #62
    Stoked! Kwizzle42's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I need some tips on fiberglassing longboards.. Just started constructing longboards and just made my first attempt at fiberglassing a deck. I ran a practice run on my sector 9 mini shaka before I start my next project. It turned out fairly well.. I wrappend one layer of bondo fiber glass around the bottom and sides using bondo resin/hardener. Ive heard epoxy resin is better tho... I just need some tips on how to get the best result.

  4. #63
    Fresh Fish smokeater2005's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    OK so I think I know enough to be dangerous... Lol
    What I got...
    Vacuum bag press kit with tank assembled

    What I want to know if it would work...
    Buying a cheap board that is of the shape I want. Drop deck, down hill/slide & freestyle design...yes I already found one on eBay sub 75$....

    Using a flat surface and good expanding foam insulation, the kind that can be vacuum pressed, to fill the voids under the board to make a mold. Then Trim, sand, wax, and spray PVA on mold.

    Question one: if I like specific board shape, should I use the top side or bottom side as the mold surface? Seems dumb but I heard that many boards have different top and bottom profiles....does it matter at all? Lol

    Fabric layers; spectra/carbon hybrid, kevlar/carbon hybrid, and carbon fiber fabric.... All in 2x2 twill weave all 3k tow minimum

    Cores and bulk/stiffener layers; central (1x)1/8" thick nomex or kevlar honeycomb layer

    Also use (2x)2mm thick coremat, one several layers above and below the central honeycomb layer.

    I have heard that people have trimmed core materials to shape and then used a very light sprits of m3 tack adhesive to tack a single composite fabric layer on top/bottom of a core material layer, this supposedly does two things,
    1. Gives faster layup times by effectively adding 3 layers at a time, before the epoxy-gel time- of course one would have to do a heavy wet out to be sure/ not much issue when you vacuum bag out any extra...
    2. Allows one to trim the dry composite fabrics and yet the m3 spray tack holds the weave patterns and bundles in place (light handling of course) is less post cure trim work no matter what composite combo used...

    Cut, and dry fit, practice run before assembling the following layers

    Assembly bottom side facing up

    Vacuum bag
    Bleeder fabric
    Peel ply

    Carbon fiber/spektra hybrid fabric layer

    Carbon fiber/spektra hybrid fabric layer

    Carbon fiber layer

    Kevlar/carbon hybrid layer
    Cormat 2mm
    Kevlar/carbon hybrid layer

    Carbon fiber layer

    Carbon fiber/spektra hybrid fabric layer
    Kevlar honeycomb center 1/8"
    Carbon fiber/spektra hybrid fabric layer

    Carbon fiber layer

    Kevlar/carbon hybrid layer
    Cormat 2mm
    Kevlar/carbon hybrid layer

    Carbon fiber layer

    Carbon fiber layer

    Carbon fiber/spektra hybrid fabric layer


    Sprayed PVA
    Release wax
    Mold surface /bag seal

    Top side facing down... Grip tape side...




    Ideas, comment, thoughts...



    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

  5. #64
    Addicted Cruiser bandaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kwizzle42 View Post
    I need some tips on fiberglassing longboards.. Just started constructing longboards and just made my first attempt at fiberglassing a deck. I ran a practice run on my sector 9 mini shaka before I start my next project. It turned out fairly well.. I wrappend one layer of bondo fiber glass around the bottom and sides using bondo resin/hardener. Ive heard epoxy resin is better tho... I just need some tips on how to get the best result.
    The direction, weave and weight of the fibres plays a major role in the end product, so laying a 0/90* weave around the board is not the best way to use composites, but will add to the durability of the board. That is assuming you used a basic twill/plain woven fibre. If you examine other peoples layups, you will see the different styles used for each purpose. And yes, an epoxy will be tougher, would definitely recommend an epoxy next time around. I will assume you laid the glass correctly, squeezed out the bubbles, pressed, trimmed etc alright? if not, what parts and how did you do it to have problems?


    This one was a long one, so sure I missed many things along the way...

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeater2005 View Post
    What I want to know if it would work...
    Buying a cheap board that is of the shape I want. Drop deck, down hill/slide & freestyle design...yes I already found one on eBay sub 75$....
    Sure it will work, copyrights aside. If it's a cheap chinese deck, they probably don't even own the copyright for it, but original design is always good...

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeater2005 View Post
    Question one: if I like specific board shape, should I use the top side or bottom side as the mold surface? Seems dumb but I heard that many boards have different top and bottom profiles....does it matter at all? Lol
    Depends how the board was made. If it was simple rectangles pressed together and cut out it should be near enough identical on the bottom (the surface will be offset the board thickness, to instead of a radius of 300mm, it will be 312ish) . Obviously any added materials will make a certain section thicker than other sections. I would suggest taking the top profile, laying up the deck with some release (perforated) ply on the non-mould side if you want a composite finish.

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeater2005 View Post
    I have heard that people have trimmed core materials to shape and then used a very light sprits of m3 tack adhesive to tack a single composite fabric layer on top/bottom of a core material layer, this supposedly does two things,
    1. Gives faster layup times by effectively adding 3 layers at a time, before the epoxy-gel time- of course one would have to do a heavy wet out to be sure/ not much issue when you vacuum bag out any extra...
    2. Allows one to trim the dry composite fabrics and yet the m3 spray tack holds the weave patterns and bundles in place (light handling of course) is less post cure trim work no matter what composite combo used...
    Sounds plausible, however have never tried these methods, so no comment here. Except these: the 3m glue may mess with the epoxy and give a bad join (so test?) and you will run a jigsaw or something around the edge afterwards anyway right? the two layers or fabric might be a negligible thickness, comparatively. I use a 24h cure epoxy, so layup speed isn't of concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeater2005 View Post
    Assembly bottom side facing up

    Vacuum bag
    Bleeder fabric
    Peel ply
    Peel ply won't give a nice finish surface, so be willing to give it a wet coat, and lay some acetate to give a schmick finish once it's cured and the peel ply has come off.

    Quote Originally Posted by smokeater2005 View Post
    Sprayed PVA
    Release wax
    Mold surface /bag seal
    Remember the board will take whatever that mould surface is like, so it could be best to lay fibreglass over it and sand it down if you use the expander foam (or anything else that may have bubbles/imperfections. Your feet will be on this surface and they will notice any lumps, and they will annoy the **** out of you). This would also help with the crushing of the high points.


    General thoughts: That seems like a massive layup, it looks like you are trying to keep it as thin and light as possible? Carbon and resin is actually quite heavy, it is only light because of the amount used being small. For this reason, could be lighter to use more foam, and less carbon. the board would be thicker, but probably lighter. you could even have the foam tapering out, so the edges are thinner and only use the extra carbon here if you wanted to make the board look ultra thin. How were you planning on sealing the edges? the foam/hex are soft materials and will need something protecting them or they will prematurely break. Also I am not sure about flex with alu hex core, but the compression/expansion of the foam may allow it, I have just never used hex in flexible stuff myself. Side note: remember to keep the mould several times stiffer than the board materials, or you will bend the mould as well as the deck.

    Thought's Yan? Others?

  6. #65
    Fresh Fish smokeater2005's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    My usage of expanding foam would only be for supporting the boards raised areas. If board upside down this would be sprayed on flat base and board pressed on leaving a good 1\2" raised above all foam. If board molded right side up, the majority of foam would likely be supporting the ends shape.

    Weave would be 0\90 dual twill but I would vary the angles by fabric type for strength and simplicity.

    Would it be better to cut out the nomex/honeycomb layer all together, and instead use four more, totaling 6 coremat layers 2mm thick each?

    As far as sealing coremat I propose overlapping all the spektra/carbon layers with extra material and trimming extra off after cure/demolding

    I assume that varying the coremat layer widths 1-2mm.. could be used to make some/a little side taper...

    A final aesthetic layer of epoxy with an acetone filled spritzer does sound like a good idea... Would do both sides so as to be able to use clear grip tape...


    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

  7. #66
    Fresh Fish smokeater2005's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!



    My VERY crude picture of expanding foam usage areas with relation to board side used for mold... This is my experiment board for testing m3 spray effect on epoxy, technic and layup procedure/ practice, thickness, flex and refinement. Afterward I'll give it to my 16 year old stepson for the destruction testing! Lol! He normally kills a wood board in 3 months max, so failure and any faulty construction shouldn't take a long time to surface....

    Sent from Tapatalk app

  8. #67
    Capo di Tutti Posto Cann0n's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I have an 8 ply board. I added griptape. Road it. Want something stiffer. Want to add a layer of fiberglass or two to the bottom to make real stiff...

    I assume I must sand the graphics off to get the layer(s) to stick properly. If I did two layers, I assume I also need to add both at once before the resin sets. If I decide to remove the griptape, I'll probably just sand the whole thing and add a top layer too. What do you think?
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  9. #68
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I was going to build a board thats 37 in long and 9.50 inch wide that has 5/8 concave and a mellow 5 inch kick. My plan for the lamination was vertically laminated bamboo bb bamboo bb. I was wondering if this would work in the press and not crack. do i need fiberglass and i want it stiff. im 130

  10. #69
    Addicted Cruiser bandaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Cannon - see other thread

    vapor - never used bamboo myself, but if they are 1/16 layers then you will definitely need more to make it stiff. If it is a bb ply, it would depend on the kick angle and the curvature into the kick as to whether it cracks or not, but if it is a compound curve, probably wont do it.

  11. #70
    Addicted Cruiser bandaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    A question for those who have done balsa/foam builds, is it worth getting end grain balsa over long grain? I can get long grain locally, or order some end grain. Would you recommend balsa or foam for the core?

  12. #71
    Fresh Fish vapor's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Ok well i just stuck it in the press yesterday and i did a corssgrain baltic birch sandwhiced between two vertically laminated bamboo plys. all these are 1/8 inch

  13. #72
    We build your board Concrete Kahuna AM Wood Skateboard Co's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by bandaro View Post
    A question for those who have done balsa/foam builds, is it worth getting end grain balsa over long grain? I can get long grain locally, or order some end grain. Would you recommend balsa or foam for the core?
    End grain is more difficult to compress, which is what you want. Long grain will compress easily and won't be as durable long term.. it may even crush a bit in the press.

  14. #73
    Longskateaholic HolaSenor's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Epoxy Resin System for Carbon Fiber Fiberglass Kevlar 6 Oz | eBay

    would this stuff in particular be good to use i need cheap with free shipping that of which it is, but i was woncering if anyone has used this brand/type before and if it at least gets the job done/how good is it
    -thanks

  15. #74
    Concrete Kahuna frare bear's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    That seems to be the exact same epoxy made and sold by Resin Research, you can see the exact same specs here

    I'm a huge fan of this epoxy (assuming it is the same), but is that 6oz of it for $18? That would be triple the price of buying a gallon ($ per oz)
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody242424 View Post
    dont cry. boards love to be abused. its what they live for. i feel sorry for the boards who never get ridden hard. give your board a good life!:mrgreen:
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  16. #75
    Stoked! daranga3's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    HI,
    I've got a board that i would like to stiffen up. I have access to carbon fiber tape, both plain and uni-directional. The tape is 10cm wide and would be going on a 35 inch board. Would this tape add stiffness or would it just give it more snappy flex? If i wanted to make it stiff, would i have to put the tape on the top and bottom? And which would make it stiffer, plain tape or uni-directional tape?
    Thanks in advance
    Dan

  17. #76
    Addicted Cruiser bandaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    For stiffer, uni on the bottom.

    The cross grain fibres on the bottom do little to nothing, long grain on the bottom have the most effect. The weight of the carbon would depend how stiff it gets, but I would put the layer of uni as a strip down the centre, keep it nice and neat and you can make a nice feature out of it too, make it look really cool.

  18. #77
    Fresh Fish GooberSmoocher's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Is it possible to delete a post?
    Last edited by GooberSmoocher; 03-12-2014 at 10:49 AM.

  19. #78
    Fresh Fish GooberSmoocher's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    This might be a pretty complex question to answer, but could you give an overview of what properties you look for in an epoxy and why?

    I guess another way to word that question is, if you could have the perfect epoxy, what properties would make it that way, and why?

    EDIT:Originally I was thinking of epoxy for composite work. Then I realized, the perfect epoxy for composite work, and the perfect epoxy for gluing a board together are likely different. I also realize that depending on your specific goal it might also be slightly different. If there were some general guidelines you could provide that would be awesome though.

  20. #79
    Concrete Kahuna frare bear's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Yea... this question could get real deep.

    My favorite properties of epoxy:

    - UV stable
    - 20-30min working time
    - 1-4 hour curing time
    - inexpensive
    - not too thick

    For composite work you want a thinner epoxy than for laminating boards. But if you buy a resin for composite lamination purposes, you can get a thixtropic agent to thicken it and use it for wood lamination.

    My favorite two epoxies so far:

    1) Resin Research CE
    2) US Composites 635 thin resin (cheapest quality epoxy you can buy)
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody242424 View Post
    dont cry. boards love to be abused. its what they live for. i feel sorry for the boards who never get ridden hard. give your board a good life!:mrgreen:
    Quote Originally Posted by omahgarsh View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by TestMonkeyUnlimited View Post
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  21. #80
    We build your board Concrete Kahuna AM Wood Skateboard Co's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by frare bear View Post
    Yea... this question could get real deep.
    No kidding.

    For glass work I prefer a slightly higher viscosity laminating resin than most on the market. Helps to keep the resin in the weave when under heavy pressure when doing in-press lamination.
    For wood on wood, I use high strength "performance" laminating resin thickened up with fumed silica. Works great, but under that much pressure it still seeps through veneers even when thickened.

    Not so interested in UV stability as all my stuff is coated with polyurethane.


    Also going to start playing with urethane laminating resins. Look super interesting.

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