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  1. #1
    Addicted Cruiser Yan Poirier's Avatar
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    Default I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Hello board builders! I have more than 4 years of experience in using composites for building longboards. I will try my best to answer any questions you may have.


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  3. #2
    Addicted Cruiser bandaro's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    ok I'll bite, I am making a board currently, wheel wells routed into it a uniform 2mm deep from the timber core bottom surface. Given that the deck will have a concave curve, how do I cut the carbon so it gives a carbon bottom, then wheel wells cut through the carbon and 2mm into the core, showing the timber core?

    The carbon underneath will be around 0.8mm thick, so thicker than I want to trim down with a knife. The concave curve on the board will mean routing the wells is out, so I was thinking of making some "pre-preg" carbon, trimming that when wet, laying it up in the mould, then later shaving the stuff that's squeezed into the wells on clamping. Probably laser cut a little insert out of plastic to slip in the wells when moulding to make up for the thickness.

    What would you suggest/how do you do it?

  4. #3
    Addicted Cruiser Yan Poirier's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Okay, i'm not sure I understand correctly... you want a carbon fiber bottom and want the wheels wells to show your wood? You are cutting your wheel wells before moulding?

    You can have pressure/lamination problems when doing wheels wells before moulding, it is not recommended. If you do so, yes, a plastic insert would be useful. If you put a plastic insert the carbon won't stick to your wheel wells (you lay the carbon over the plastic inserts). and then it will be easy to cut: you cut near the edge of your Wheel wells with an x acto style knife (fresh blade) and then sand till you have reached the edge.

    If you are afraid the thickness of your inserts don't fit perfectly flush with your sandwich and that the carbon won't stick properly near the edges of your wheel wells, you can put plastic tape over the wheel wells (so the carbon don't stick), then lay up, then put the inserts!

    If you have some difficulties cutting your plastic tape right to cover your wheel wells, lay plastic tape over maskin tape, and then cut it, it will be much easier to cut curves in it this way.

    Carbon is kinda easy to cut and sand.

    But..., why can't you cut your wheel wells after moulding?
    Last edited by Yan Poirier; 11-19-2013 at 08:33 AM.

  5. #4
    Longskateaholic Prometheus's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Im not sure if this really counts as a fabric question but would adding Kevlar pulp to epoxy make any noticeable strength differences to a board that was glued up with said epoxy

  6. #5
    Concrete Kahuna frare bear's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Why are hot coats such a pain? I hate bubbles
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody242424 View Post
    dont cry. boards love to be abused. its what they live for. i feel sorry for the boards who never get ridden hard. give your board a good life!:mrgreen:
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    How are you gonna take over the world if you can't handle a little cold pizza and warm beer in the morning ???
    Quote Originally Posted by TestMonkeyUnlimited View Post
    Now if I could just act like a grown-up and pay bills... Can't I just play "skateboards" all day?
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  7. #6
    Addicted Cruiser Yan Poirier's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by Prometheus View Post
    Im not sure if this really counts as a fabric question but would adding Kevlar pulp to epoxy make any noticeable strength differences to a board that was glued up with said epoxy
    Haha! I have made tests with that.

    First, if you use epoxy to glue your board, your need a flexible one for impact resistence and breaking strenght. Not all epoxy works. Epoxy instead of wood glue will make your board stiffer (not using composite), but it won't be has impact resistent as a good wood glue. Also, your wood must not be dry, it is a good thing to have your wood in a 80% + humidity environnement if you use epoxy.

    A water base wood glue such as titebond III can be use on relatively dry wood, because the water in it kinda wet the wood. But titebond III does not make stiff boards.

    Adding kevlar pulp will especially help when combine with composite, if you put 1 kevlar pulp for 3 epoxy in volume, I think you can gain around from 15% to 25% in overall stiffness of your laminate. The tests I did we're homemade, by making samples. My numbers are not exact, it is an approximation. But for sure, noticeable.

    If not used with composite, there is a small difference, but not much. I'd say from 5 to 10%. Hard to notice.

    You must not use a too thick epoxy when combining with kevlar in order to put a lot of it while maintaining a viscosity you can work with.

    The choice of your epoxy is important, if it is not heat resistent enough, for example, and you let a board in your car during a hot summer day, it may delaminate. An epoxy designed as wood glue is pretty much the best.

  8. #7
    Addicted Cruiser Yan Poirier's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by frare bear View Post
    Why are hot coats such a pain? I hate bubbles
    I have no experiences with hot coats, but I know how to make a "perfect" epoxy coating over a boards. One sure thing is that the surface you hot coat must be completely sealed before you coat it!

  9. #8
    Longskateaholic Prometheus's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Poirier View Post
    Haha! I have made tests with that.

    First, if you use epoxy to glue your board, your need a flexible one for impact resistence and breaking strenght. Not all epoxy works. Epoxy instead of wood glue will make your board stiffer (not using composite), but it won't be has impact resistent as a good wood glue. Also, your wood must not be dry, it is a good thing to have your wood in a 80% + humidity environnement if you use epoxy.

    A water base wood glue such as titebond III can be use on relatively dry wood, because the water in it kinda wet the wood. But titebond III does not make stiff boards.

    Adding kevlar pulp will especially help when combine with composite, if you put 1 kevlar pulp for 3 epoxy in volume, I think you can gain around from 15% to 25% in overall stiffness of your laminate. The tests I did we're homemade, by making samples. My numbers are not exact, it is an approximation. But for sure, noticeable.

    If not used with composite, there is a small difference, but not much. I'd say from 5 to 10%. Hard to notice.

    You must not use a too thick epoxy when combining with kevlar in order to put a lot of it while maintaining a viscosity you can work with.

    The choice of your epoxy is important, if it is not heat resistent enough, for example, and you let a board in your car during a hot summer day, it may delaminate. An epoxy designed as wood glue is pretty much the best.
    Wow man thanks for the info you seriously know your stuff!

  10. #9
    Fresh Fish willworm's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    If I glue up a 6 ply maple board and have a layer of 11 oz uni carbon underneath the bottom layer of maple would this be stiff enough to use as a downhill/freeride board? (I weigh 165) I will be using TBIII for glue in between all other plies except the one with the carbon-with that I will be using epoxy. The board will have a little under 1/4" inch of W and about 1/2" of concave and a 26.6-28" wheelbase.

    in case of confusion the layup I am asking about would be this:

    ML(maple long grain)
    MC(maple cross grain)
    ML
    MC
    ML
    11oz uni carboon
    ML

  11. #10
    Concrete Kahuna goodmedicine's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by willworm View Post
    If I glue up a 6 ply maple board and have a layer of 11 oz uni carbon underneath the bottom layer of maple would this be stiff enough to use as a downhill/freeride board? (I weigh 165) I will be using TBIII for glue in between all other plies except the one with the carbon-with that I will be using epoxy. The board will have a little under 1/4" inch of W and about 1/2" of concave and a 26.6-28" wheelbase.

    in case of confusion the layup I am asking about would be this:

    ML(maple long grain)
    MC(maple cross grain)
    ML
    MC
    ML
    11oz uni carboon
    ML
    @willworm

    Yan is not online so I guess I'll answer since I see you are online.

    Yes, I think that would be stiff enough for you (especially with W concave).
    For your carbon to be most effective, move it to the very bottom of your board.
    Who's your daddy?
    THC Club

  12. #11
    Addicted Cruiser Ambrosia's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Your name seem frenchy and you know alot about composite.

    I'm guessing you're the mind behind Rotule, am I right?
    www.Ambrosiawheels.com

    Instagram : http://instagram.com/ambrosialongboards

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Ambrosiawheelswelovecats

  13. #12
    Addicted Cruiser Yan Poirier's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by willworm View Post
    If I glue up a 6 ply maple board and have a layer of 11 oz uni carbon underneath the bottom layer of maple would this be stiff enough to use as a downhill/freeride board? (I weigh 165) I will be using TBIII for glue in between all other plies except the one with the carbon-with that I will be using epoxy. The board will have a little under 1/4" inch of W and about 1/2" of concave and a 26.6-28" wheelbase.

    in case of confusion the layup I am asking about would be this:

    ML(maple long grain)
    MC(maple cross grain)
    ML
    MC
    ML
    11oz uni carboon
    ML
    Hey Willworm. You will need at least 8 plies if you want your board to be DH stiff. If you want some light/moderate flex, 7 is okay.

    Also, it is a good thing to have carbon on top, in order to have a "sandwich" construction. This would make your board stiffer than adding two layers of 11oz uni on bottom for example. In that configuration, If you use 2 carbon layers top/bottom with 7 plies maple it will have a light DH okay flex. Doing the same thing with 8 plies will make your board stiff like a 10 plies, approximately.

    And yes, moving the carbon to the very bottom/very top will make your deck a bit stiffer...but I guess you prefer the look of the wood!

  14. #13
    Addicted Cruiser Yan Poirier's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I hope I will please some board builders here!

    I decided to sell some high quality fabrics dedicated to board building for a very LOW price. I will add more in the future, so come back once in a while!

    GO THERE: Carbon Basalt Dual Twill 12K 20oz 11 5'' Wide Board Building Material | eBay

  15. #14
    Concrete Kahuna Irwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I'm looking to invest in a sizeable amount of carbon fiber to prototype some speedboards. Torsional stiffness as well as minimal longitudinal flex is a must and light weight is nice. I'm currently thinkin some unidirectional carbon layered with a 45º biaxial cloth, and marine epoxy. I am not into drops but I plan on trying out some mild 3d concave at some point. What composites should I look for?

    Addendum: I'm currently riding an Earthwing MM Hoopty. Nothing less than complete rigidity is acceptable
    Last edited by Irwin; 11-23-2013 at 03:49 PM.
    The certain prospect of death could sweeten every life with a precious and fragrant drop of levity- and now you strange apothecary souls have turned it into an ill-tasting drop of poison that makes the whole of life repulsive.

  16. #15
    Addicted Cruiser Yan Poirier's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by Irwin View Post
    I'm looking to invest in a sizeable amount of carbon fiber to prototype some speedboards. Torsional stiffness as well as minimal longitudinal flex is a must and light weight is nice. I'm currently thinkin some unidirectional carbon layered with a 45º biaxial cloth, and marine epoxy. I am not into drops but I plan on trying out some mild 3d concave at some point. What composites should I look for?

    Addendum: I'm currently riding an Earthwing MM Hoopty. Nothing less than complete rigidity is acceptable
    Is the 45º cloth carbon too?

    Using Uni + 45º carbon is good but very expensive. If you don't care about the price, go for it. Use 6oz or 9oz for each. You plan to put both fabrics top and bottom right?

    You could also put carbon "X"s made of Uni carbon:

    Name:  WP_000366.jpg
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    Sure you can make all kind of configurations, this one up makes a very good pop.

    It works well, lighweight and cheaper than 45º cloth, especially if you use Uni carbon in the first place!

    If you want it lightweigh, your need a lightweight core! If you can find some Aspen, it's a good choice. I haven't played with Aspen for boards, but I did composite hockey stick with Aspen and I'm confident it is a good choice: light, flexible, resilient and it won't crack: it is not brittle at all !

    My personnal opinion is that SUPER STIFF is not much fun to ride, you need some dampening.

    Combining Uni Kevlar with Carbon is very good to get the highest stiffness with lighter weight. For example, 6oz Uni Carbon + 2.5oz Uni Kevlar will be as good if not better than 12oz Uni carbon.

    For the best bang for the buck, it doesn't get better than this:

    Carbon Basalt Dual Twill 12K 20oz

    You put one of these top and bottom with a 7 plies maple core, and it will be VERY STIFF (longitudinal and torsionnal)

    I'm selling some: 12$/ 4' x 11.5''

    Name:  WP_000349.jpg
Views: 2425
Size:  78.5 KBName:  WP_000350.jpg
Views: 2424
Size:  86.0 KB

    Let me know your findings!

  17. #16
    Longskateaholic KDockBoards's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Subscribed! This is some great info I wish i would've been able to read all this before I used up all my carbon fiber
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/KDockLongboards

  18. #17
    Concrete Kahuna TomT's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    This stuff boggles my mind, but I like to see all this cool carbon-y stuff nonetheless.

    Yan, you seem like a wealth of information
    Quote Originally Posted by samdasurfer View Post
    I just do da wheeliebaording for da fun.
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    If you can do sit down slides at a real world 40mph, I will not only eat tom's slide gloves but give him a reach around as well.

  19. #18
    Addicted Cruiser dallin's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
    Your name seem frenchy and you know alot about composite.

    I'm guessing you're the mind behind Rotule, am I right?
    ding ding ding.
    Pulled pork is the sh!t

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    You're using Calibers, of course you're wrong
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  20. #19
    Stoked! Hairyandlloyd32's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    I'm glad people like you take time to explain it, I got tired of answering people stuff, great idea"s out there.

    Carbon fiber is the way to go I've been using it for three years

  21. #20
    Concrete Kahuna Irwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: I will answer any questions about using composite fabrics in board building!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Poirier View Post
    Is the 45º cloth carbon too?

    Using Uni + 45º carbon is good but very expensive. If you don't care about the price, go for it. Use 6oz or 9oz for each. You plan to put both fabrics top and bottom right?...
    You could also put carbon "X"s made of Uni carbon...
    My personnal opinion is that SUPER STIFF is not much fun to ride, you need some dampening.
    Let me know your findings!
    Well the board I'm riding now is a vert-lammed Mahogany and aspen core (mahogany rails and 2 strips for the mounting holes, rest is aspen) with uni carbon and there also appears to be a layer of 12-15oz 4x4 fiberglass top and bottom. No dampening, especially with RADs and Ronins, but the feel of that board is incredibly precise, and something that I am trying to replicate by adding composites to some of my older boards. Once I can get my old speedboards into tip-top shape and can get a decent finish I will move on to new builds. I was going to start yesterday but somebody moved/used/misplaced my hardener.
    The certain prospect of death could sweeten every life with a precious and fragrant drop of levity- and now you strange apothecary souls have turned it into an ill-tasting drop of poison that makes the whole of life repulsive.

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