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  1. #1
    Stoked! kcrews123's Avatar
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    Default Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    Been trying for the past month or so (with no success) to use a roarockit vacuum bag (I've now attempted 9 boards). Every time, there is delamination. I've checked for leaks (I haven't found/heard any, and the bag stays tight the whole 24 hours I leave the veneer in it), I've put new sealing tape on and made sure the very edges are sealed, I'm using plenty of Titebond 2 glue, I'm getting all the veneer glued and in the bag within 7 minutes, and I'm sucking out every last bit of air I can. I've also made sure parts of the bag don't get stuck between the wood/mold and create air pockets as well. Though No matter what, the edges are never pressed together well. While the veneer is in the bag there will be gaps between the veneer, and I can close the gap by barely pressing it with my finger, so why is there not enough pressure in the bag to give a consistent, even, and high enough pressure to make sure the entire board is laminating together? Here are some pictures where you can see the gaps in the veneer, and one of them showing how easily I can close the gap by just pressing it.


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    Last edited by kcrews123; 04-08-2017 at 08:13 PM.


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  3. #2
    Addicted Cruiser lmg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    Clamp it down with something.like a, c clamp That sucks

  4. #3
    Addicted Cruiser TioEmm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    You pump 'til you hear the "click"? An hour later it still clicks with a pump or two?
    Are you working at high altitude?
    www.facebook.com/TioEmm

  5. #4
    Addicted Cruiser tigerflaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    High altitude, low pressure? Where is your breathing net? I can't see it from the photos.
    Get someone to help spreading the glue, TB2 dries faster, even more so if the weather is hot and dry.
    Are you spreading the glue evenly across the veneer, with a roller?

    9 failures is a lot.. It doesn't make sense.

  6. #5
    Stoked! kcrews123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by lmg View Post
    Clamp it down with something.like a, c clamp That sucks
    I've heard about doing that, but it seems like I shouldn't have to. I mean that shouldn't the bag be doing it's job of pressing the veneer?

    Quote Originally Posted by TioEmm View Post
    You pump 'til you hear the "click"? An hour later it still clicks with a pump or two?
    Are you working at high altitude?
    I'm using the super pump (or whatever its called) so it does not click (according to the Roarockit site). I check it every hour or so and goes to pump it and its obvious there is no air to suck out. I'm in the dead center of the country (Kansas City, MO) so altitude shouldn't be a an issue here.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerflaw View Post
    High altitude, low pressure? Where is your breathing net? I can't see it from the photos.
    Get someone to help spreading the glue, TB2 dries faster, even more so if the weather is hot and dry.
    Are you spreading the glue evenly across the veneer, with a roller?

    9 failures is a lot.. It doesn't make sense.
    The net is in there, directly below the valve (I know its hard to see in the pictures). I read that the working time for TB2 is 7-9 minutes, am I wrong?

    I know the amount of failures doesn't make sense, which is why I'm so baffled.

  7. #6
    Addicted Cruiser tigerflaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    Are you cutting your own mold or is it a preshaped kit? In one of those pics the mold looks smaller than the veneer. That's bad and could give you problems. I believe the mold should be the same size or a little bigger.
    Are you laying your plies in proper order grain wise?
    Why aren't you using TB3?
    Have any images of the whole thing? Mold in the bag with the veneer?

  8. #7
    Addicted Cruiser tigerflaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    Oops, double post..

  9. #8
    Concrete Kahuna Ted's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    Your problem is way too much glue. You mentioned "plenty of Titebond". Plenty is right. I can see this from the pictures you have posted that the glue is oozing out the sides.

    Use a thin napped roller and apply an even amount of glue over the entire surface of the laminate.

    Too much glue causes maple veneer to expand like crazy and it causes bubbling and delaminating like you are encountering. Our pre-shaped kits teach you how to apply the proper amount of glue. Looks like you went at building a custom right off. That's ok but a little research on glue application is necessary. We have videos online that show you how much glue is needed. Sorry for the problems.
    I cannot tell from the pics if your mold is an ok shape. This too can cause problems with delamination. I think it's the glue though.
    There is unfortunately a learning curve with building custom boards.
    We have all gone through this in one way or another.
    Ted
    Last edited by Ted; 04-09-2017 at 07:40 PM.
    ROAROCKIT

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  10. #9
    Addicted Cruiser lmg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    How can glue cure in a vacuum with no air? That small amount of glue coming out does not seem that excessive? I have not used a vacuum bag.I have had glue come out the sides but it wus 1/8bb wich I think holds up better with excessive glue.

  11. #10
    Concrete Kahuna Ted's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    Moisture in the glue absorbs into the wood. Solids then do their job bonding the layers. The moisture will remain in the wood for a long time as it is trapped between the dried glue lines. This is a typical scenario with any type of press.
    Trust me, pictures above show excessive glue for a veneer build.
    Baltic Birch plywood builds are very different than veneer builds. The two dried glue lines in the plywood prevent wood expansion making it a no brainer for glue application. Almost any amount of glue will work. This makes for bad habits especially when moving to veneer builds. Results in bubbling in the veneers and delams.
    Ted
    ROAROCKIT

    TOLL FREE NUMBER FOR USA AND CANADA
    1 888 857 7790

    GREAT PRICES ON MAPLE, BIRCH AND BAMBOO VENEERS

    Innovative Tools for Boardbuilding
    NEW 3 STEP DROP THROUGH TEMPLATE
    DOUBLE BEARING ROUTER BIT SPECIFICALLY MADE FOR ROUNDING SKATEBOARDS

    Check us out at Roarockit.ca in Canada - Roarockit.com in USA - Roarockit.eu in Europe
    - Roarockit.co.uk in the United Kingdom - Australianskateboardkits.com in Australia

    We are a Social Minded, 100% Boardbuilding Company

  12. #11
    Concrete Kahuna Chainmaillekid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    Clearly you're using the vaccum bag wrong.


    Should look like this:
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    https://www.youtube.com/user/OtherPlanetsSkate

  13. #12
    Stoked! kcrews123's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roarockit Vacuum Bag - What the Hell am I Doing Wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerflaw View Post
    Are you cutting your own mold or is it a preshaped kit? In one of those pics the mold looks smaller than the veneer. That's bad and could give you problems. I believe the mold should be the same size or a little bigger.
    Are you laying your plies in proper order grain wise?
    Why aren't you using TB3?
    Have any images of the whole thing? Mold in the bag with the veneer?
    My order for the grains is face - core - cross - core - cross - core - face; thats right (for a 7-ply deck), correct?
    Yeah I cut my own mold, and you are correct, the mold is about half an inch smaller than the veneer. I never really thought about that causing a problem but I can see how it would. I went ahead and cut a new mold last night that is slightly larger and it looks to be doing a better job, so we'll see when i take the deck out of the bag and get it cut.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    Your problem is way too much glue. You mentioned "plenty of Titebond". Plenty is right. I can see this from the pictures you have posted that the glue is oozing out the sides...

    Too much glue causes maple veneer to expand like crazy and it causes bubbling and delaminating like you are encountering.
    I know about the whole too much glue thing, cause the first couple boards I did had bubbling along with the delam on the edges. Since then I've corrected the amount of glue I use (light coat on each side of each veneer, except the face and bottom of course). I think the reason it looks like theres too much glue in the pictures is because 1. dried leftover glue from previous boards, 2. glue that kinda got caught on the edges and smeared inside the bag, so it looks like there more than there is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    Looks like you went at building a custom right off. That's ok but a little research on glue application is necessary. We have videos online that show you how much glue is needed. Sorry for the problems.
    You bet I did! haha. I actually watched one of your videos the other day about glue application and that is what made me change the amount of glue I'm using.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    I cannot tell from the pics if your mold is an ok shape. This too can cause problems with delamination. I think it's the glue though.

    I think the mold was a little too small, as I know the delam wasn't due to any crazy dips or anything considering I have a cosistent u-shape concave that maxes out at .65" deep on the edges. I made a new one and so far is seems like it is doing better


    Quote Originally Posted by Chainmaillekid View Post
    Clearly you're using the vaccum bag wrong.


    Should look like this:
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    Haha, kinda seems like at that point a hydraulic press would be the better option.
    Last edited by kcrews123; 04-12-2017 at 02:55 PM.


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